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OT. Engagement ring cost and balance in life


C5 Golfer

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Originally posted by Jack Michaud

You're right, a marriage certificate alone does not, however having your wedding witnessed by the people you love and care about does.

Jack, one of the few times I have to disagree with you. In my opinion it comes down to what the word commitment means to the husband and wife. That begins with how each one was broght up and thus defining the meaning of commitment. I know some guys who even if it was witnessed by 100 of thier friends he'd turn his back in a heartbeat if there was something better in that moment. :(

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Originally posted by Baka Dasai

I'd go one further and say that a marriage certificate is superficial and doesn't bind the relationship.

It may be superficial, but it's a commitment with legal implications. But to me the real commitment is having kids together. I think you need to take a harder look at your relationship before taking that plunge than when you decide to get married. Splitting up without kids is tough, but you're both adults, you'll deal. Splitting up with kids is a whole different ball game. I've got friends in their 40s still carrying baggage from their parents' divorces when they were 8 or 10.

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Originally posted by C5 Golfer

Jack, one of the few times I have to disagree with you. In my opinion it comes down to what the word commitment means to the husband and wife. That begins with how each one was broght up and thus defining the meaning of commitment. I know some guys who even if it was witnessed by 100 of thier friends he'd turn his back in a heartbeat if there was something better in that moment. :(

No, I agree, but I would argue those guys either don't really care that much about the people around them and their blessing, or they aren't really committed to the woman and are just going through the motions.

I think the difference is that when your event is witnessed and celebrated by everyone you care about, it can simply help make it more real and binding for you if you think it does. Tree falling in the forest type thing. This applies to many events - graduations, awards, sports, etc.

If you don't care about anybody witnessing or recognizing or blessing your commitment, then yeah, may as well do it in city hall by yourself. Which only has meaning if you give it meaning. Like Baka, I think it's pretty pointless, aside from securing whatever legal rights married people have for yourself if you want them. Chances are, if you don't care about having your loved ones witnessing your commitment, then you are truly an island and you don't care about the state witnessing it either.

Personally I don't believe anyone is an island, at least not by choice. If you don't want your loved ones witnessing your marriage, I'd bet you're not that sure about the commitment.

And like Neil says, the even-more-real binding moment is having a child together. Before that point, there are really no major consequences to divorce. After a baby, you are in each other's lives forever regardless of divorce, unless you're total scum.

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Congratulations! You boys have succesfully brought up a subject totally unrelated to snowboarding, and somehow surround it by snowboarding and cars.... I guess women love men because we are so different.

As a female reading all of this talk, I have to say that all women/men are different and that's what makes the world go round. I personally feel that an engagement ring is a Traditional Symbol of a commitment the man gives the women to say he is married to her, and now they will spend this time planning their big celebration. Whether you agree with this or have it as part of your life is up to you, but traditionally that is what it means.

I would much rather have a house or a dependable car than a ring on my finger, but that's just me, I don't feel as though I am very materiialistic. However, the ring is a GIFT from one person to another, and just as accepting any gift you must respect the giver and their decision to buy it, and give it to you. If you know this person well enough to accept their gift, they should know you well enough to buy you a gift you will like, use, and appreciate. It's all about the commitment in your heart, and you can have a ring, car, house, even marriage but if you don't have that you have nothing. I know lots of people who aren't married, but are committed to each other for many years, and people who are married for a few months and cheat, lie, just being asses. We all know what money and material things do to people, just look at any of our Hollywood's finest.

So as a female, it's nice to be surprised by the ring, and even more surprised by the "question", but any gift would suffice (your love and commitment can be here instead of something you physically buy) here as long as it is from the heart, and you mean it.

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Michelle, I like your view of this a lot!

Another interesting point is that this typical engagement ring thing, is mostly common here in the US. In Germany, where my wife and I (am married over 16 years now) from, nobody of the regular people would even think about to buy a ring of the value of three monthly salaries (as nicely advertised)! This has absolutely nothing to do with money, but just with a tradition more common in Europe. The exchange of a plain wedding/engagement band does at the work. No major diamond ring, no disappointment about a diamond maybe to small... Sure, if you want to buy your wife some nice jewelry, feel free anytime. I guess no wife would object. There are many opportunities to do so. Anniversary, Birthday, maybe her first child, or maybe just a regular day during the week.

Love does not know money, nor can money/jewelry buy Love.

But one thing I have to say, very well done by the industry...;)

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if I ever get married Im just gonna get a simple but sleek lookin platinum band for me and my woman. maybe engraved with some sort of celtic pattern to symbolize the interleaving of our lives.

diamonds are a joke. sorry, but its true. just another marketing ploy bought hook line and sinker.

the symbolism of the ring, though...I think that means something

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My Bavarian friend just got engaged, and I had to coach him on the whole engagement ring procedure. He had never heard of this! The biggest thing is that he is marrying a Southern girl, and they are all about showing it off (I am also Southern, so I have LOTS of room to talk! - no recourse please!). I told him the 2 things she will be asked is

1. How did he propose?

2. Let me see the ring!

As I said, every woman is different and I am proof. A Cajun girl who couldn't care less about jewlery and materialistic foofy stuff.

I agree with D-Sub, the symbolism of the ring is priceless (as well as the question - asking someone to spend the rest of their life with you is HUGE), but I could never wear a huge thing on my hand. It puts a damper on wearing gloves (snowboarding, biking, weight lifting, dog sledding, etc......). Some things have to be sacrificed, and I would be happy to have it be the rings!

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Originally posted by D-Sub

the symbolism of the ring, though...I think that means something

Yea, the worlds smallest pair of handcuffs :D

I kid, I kid.

Seriously though, it's the most fun you never want to have again!

Alright, I'll stop.

I love my wife and marriage is great and I also didn't need to buy any diamonds for her. Just a <a href ="http://www.hammondcastle.org/">castle</a> to get married in!

->Ben

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heh. a cynic!

yeah...the money thing...I just dont get that part. again, Im lucky to have the girl Im with for many of these reasons. She's definitely not materialistic.

I have to wonder...for instance...Michelles friend's woman...if he didnt buy her the right ring...would she not marry? not be happy?

ick.

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A couple years ago some friends at work were talking about the whole engagment ring thing. One of them was asking about what happens to the ring if the engagemnt is broken off.

THe one guy said he had researched that a bunch. Basically according to the laws that he had looked up, if one performs the engagment on a holiday, like x-mas or a birthday or whatever, the ring can be considered a gift/present, and if things are broken off, the girl gets to keep the ring. However, if the act is performed not on a holiday, so the ring can't be considered a gift, its considered part of a binding contract, so if things don't work out, the contract is broken and the man gets the ring back.

Moral of the story is, don't propose on a holiday, even though it could be considered more romantic.

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Originally posted by Michelle

That's BS. The ring is a gift, no matter who gives it to whom. Would you feel the same if the girl gave you a car? or Watch? It's a gift, the receiver gets to keep it. The contract is binding when you sign the marriage certificate.

hm i think that if you're not getting married you should give the ring back. and if by chance you gave him a car as an engagement present, you get that back :p

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Originally posted by Aisling

hm i think that if you're not getting married you should give the ring back. and if by chance you gave him a car as an engagement present, you get that back :p

I have to agree with Michelle here.. you do not need to or should give any gift back. maybe the only reason a ring should be given back is a situation where a woman only said yes to get the ring and then a few days later told him to take a hike. But good luck on that one since her reason was to con him out of a ring.

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Personally, I wouldn't want to keep the ring unless he was a total idiot and cheated on me, or tried to kill me or something. Then I'd be taking a lot more than the ring ;) I would probably give it back if the wedding was called off, but I don't feel as if it should be EXPECTED to be given back (is that correct English?). If it's a gift, you give it to the person because you want them to have it, not with conditions on it. Is it the same for Christmas or Birthday presents? Where do you draw the line?

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Michelle for President! If only more females had the same character. I am lucky to have sharred the last 16+ years with a gal who comes from the same camp (characterwise). Additionally she is an awsome,wife, mom, loves to board, rarely hastles about surf time, and she just gave me Subaru WRX STi. Now I carve the commute to work. Life is good and is getting better with Mammoth opening this week. :D

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