What will you spend on a board?

[Softcarver]

Guess I'm a fanboy now, yahoo!

This one is great. I can't believe even you are getting in on the action. Can't everyone just take a simple poll and have a discussion without bickering. Geez. For the record the instructions were pretty damn clear to me.

When I was looking at boards $800 was my cap due to finances at the moment, not desire. Luckily I found a leftover stick from last year still in the wrap and only spent around $500.

My theory is only spend:

1) what you can honestly afford.

2) how much you think you have to in order to get a board that meets your needs (ability level and riding style).

3) what you are willing to spend on a recreational sport.

If someone doesn't spend as much it doesn't make them lesser of a rider. Nor does someone spending what another may consider as excessive make them a better or lesser rider. I am not implying that a quality board does not improve riding, but rather that everything is relative and one extreme or the other does not really matter. If you are having fun and happy with your board and feel that it is worth every penny you spent on it while still paying the bills then that is all that matters.

[colintkemp]

Way to go "Fanboy Jack," you've yet again set up a great discussion (with some fangs by some showing). Thanks.

Good thread. I voted consistent with what my quiver is and was, as in my profile.

But my overall killer is my Donek FC 185, which I bought from TVR here 2 years ago for $350. It's not titinal; it's not decambered; it's not double infux triax; it's not internal honeycomb recross.... Still, it's my go-to.

A number of the posts to this thread have echoed "beauty is the eye of the beholder" etc. I agree.

But, once there is an double infux triax, internal honeycomb recross board, I'm paying ....

Colin

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Hi Bryan,

I was the guy riding the old burton fp and raceplates that day and still remember talking as well. Hope your leg has healed up well from the 07? SES. I've upgraded a bit but still ride a FP- picked up on ebay, although I did upgrade to the newer style raceplate binding that burton produced.

But I digress...

I always read your posts Bryan because you are very respectful to everyone who posts on the site. If more handled themselves the way you do, more would probably hang out and post their thoughts.

I always try to make the point that if you have the money than spend it however you like. At the same time it certainly is not a necessity to drop 1000 bucks on a board to improve. In my opinion, save the money and spend it on a trip to a resort and rip on what you have. That is always my dillema. If I by a new board I won't be able to get to the mountains to ride it. So I guess I just have to move the family to Colorado so I can stop shopping on ebay. Or, get to SES and hopefully win one. But if I had the money I would spend 800bucks on a board. At this time 250.

Hi JJ !! Thanks for the kind comments. I try.

You are an excellent example of making good use of what ever you have. Effort and agressive riding techniques can make an old board do amazing things. As good as the new boards are , they still need a good rider to operate them!!

I am doing pretty good, not as good as the last time we spoke, then again I may never be doing that good again :) The last few years have really taken their toll. Thanks again, hope to ride with you again some day. Bryan

[photodad2001]

I'm not sure where you are getting the impression that people who buy new boards are insinuating that you can't have fun on used or older equipment. That is far from the case from what I've seen.

The argument that has been made however, is that newer equipment can/does allow you to perform better and push you and your riding. Albeit there's nothing wrong with buying used equipment if that's what floats your boat.

What's with the crusade to bring/put down those of us who have allocated some funds towards a new setup?

The impression I am getting is straight from here. I wouldn't consider my handfull of posts attempting to balance the forum a crusade however. I would say that there seems to be a gross exageration of how others compare new boards to older boards without the slightest bit of scrutiny. (I'm not talking about a 2010 compared to a 1987 Sims Blade or Kemper Bullet, but like a 2000 Burton or other model) "100 times" is a bit far fetched. Even twice is a bit much in my oppinion however more realistic. Just trying to balance the forum. I appreciate the others commenting on the ability of older gear.

[Corey]

I agree with Photodad on this issue. Some posts make it sound like you can't ride if you're not on the latest and greatest equipment. There's no denying that the new stuff is better but for a beginner or casual rider the benefits of the newer gear are greatly outweighed by the huge cost premium over older stuff.

I've been riding alpine for 6-ish years now, this is the first year I've bought a new board at full retail pricing. It was entirely funded by selling off used gear to others so that they can have some fun too. I benefit by getting some money to put towards new stuff, the buyers benefit by getting boards that are still fun to ride and are likely a little different than whatever they currently own.

I plan to buy another new board next season if all goes well.

[Neil Gendzwill]

leaving it out doesn't prevent anyone from voting, and the categories down to <=$200 imply used, yes?

Well, not to beat this horse to death but... when you write and proofread something yourself, you are always reading it with your own bent. So something that seems crystal-clear to you may not be so to someone else. Such is the root of many misunderstandings in written communication, especially in forums like this one. New general-purpose snowboards are currently available for under $200, so no, it was not clear.

As far as the prices of new boards go - although they are expensive in relation to many people's budgets, they are astoundingly cheap when you consider who is building them, what their resources are and the market available to them. The owners of the businesses are building high-quality custom boards themselves for less than top-end production Burtons! Do you think Jake would be laying up boards in his shop for $15/hour or whatever it works out to?

[RDY_2_Carve]

I put 800-1000 because I paid 850 for my metal Coiler. ;)

That's about my limit though and as much as I'd like to spend more on a board I just have too many other expensive hobbies. Plus I'm lucky to get in 30 days a season...hard to justifiy a $5000 quiver...

[guido591]

Perusing (however peripherally) this rather amusing thread whilst keeping an eye on the patient slumbering under my pharmaceutical spell, I am curious as to just one thing. What constitutes a "fanboy"? I suspect that I might be one.

[photodad2001]

Perusing (however peripherally) this rather amusing thread whilst keeping an eye on the patient slumbering under my pharmaceutical spell, I am curious as to just one thing. What constitutes a "fanboy"? I suspect that I might be one.

What exactly IS a "fanboy"? I must be slipping on keeping up with todays slang in my old age.

[bjvircks]

As far as the prices of new boards go - although they are expensive in relation to many people's budgets, they are astoundingly cheap when you consider who is building them, what their resources are and the market available to them.

OUTSTANDING SUMMARY ! I believe that many folks posting here at BOL are very naive regarding the realities of designing/building/selling/supporting any kind of product, much less such a niche item as Alpine snowboarding products.

[Neil Gendzwill]

"Fan" is short for "fanatic", but nowadays what we call fans are not necessarily fanatic. "Fanboys" is a more modern term that brings the fanatic back to being a fan. Furthermore the term has a connotation of complete geekery, and is usually refers to single male losers with an unhealthy obsession with movies, television or comics.

[tex1230]

Just as a point of clarification, in more polite terms than my previous (removed) post:

I have never made a statement, nor have I read one here, that it is not possible to enjoy yourself on older equipment. One of the best runs I've had in recent years was with Jack, Geoff, Alex, Paul, and a couple of others carving down the liftline at Stowe on 20+ year old boards.

The point of my earlier post, and most of those made by the other proponents of cutting edge gear, is that once a rider reaches a point where he or she can actually tell what the board is doing at every point in the turn, once you cease to be just going along for the ride on your equipment and start really driving it, pushing gear to the limits, you will have a choice to either accept the limitations of your gear and stop progressing, or get on gear that can take you to the next level. There is nothing inherently wrong with either choiice.

What IS wrong is a certain poster here who goes on and on and on about how new shapes and materials are all a bunch of hype and anyone buying them is foolish and would do just as well on a 9 year old NOS Burton. Spreading bad information not only hurts the sport, but hurts the manufacturers that we rely on, whether it be for freecarving or racing. If the average carver starts buying that line of reasoning, that old boards are "good enough", in another 10 years you won't have anything left, because the 20- year old burtons will have disintegrated and Coiler, Donek, Prior, and all the other small board makers, as well as Bomber, Catek, and others, will be out of business.

[GeoffV]

I have never made a statement, nor have I read one here, that it is not possible to enjoy yourself on older equipment. One of the best runs I've had in recent years was with Jack, Geoff, Alex, Paul, and a couple of others carving down the liftline at Stowe on 20+ year old boards.

Matt I have to agree that was one fun run with you guys:1luvu::lol:

Here's Tex tearing it up on on some VERY old gear

[tex1230]

^^ and Paul lounging in the background!!!!

[philw]

What IS wrong ... about how new shapes and materials are all a bunch of hype and anyone buying them is foolish ... Spreading bad information not only hurts the sport, but hurts the manufacturers.... If the average carver starts buying that line of reasoning, ... all the other small board makers, as well as Bomber, Catek, and others, will be out of business.

I'm trying to understand what you're saying here. I'll ignore the personal stuff which can have no relevance. Then the first bits of your text boil down to a number of assertions which I think no one has or would disagree with. No one is seriously arguing suggesting that:

• there's nothing at all in "new" technology
  
• buying new toys (or old ones) is foolish
  
• "spreading bad information" is a good thing to do
  

You're building a straw man there.

Looking at what's left, your main argument appears to be that we should all buy new especially expensive equipment simply to keep the sport alive. It's a point of view.

I'd have expected you to say that the price premium is worth the performance.

[tex1230]

not exactly - I'm arguing against knocking the proponents of new tech simply because you either are not at the level where it matters or you choose to maintain the status quo. This hurts everyone, especially new riders interested in the sport who can be influenced into thinking that there is no difference.

also I am not pushing what I would consider "especially expensive" - My last Coiler cost less than my last pair of skis, and was on par with the mid-high end of Burton's pricing. I'll leave the $1500+ boards to the guys riding 100+ days a year or the racers looking for that 1/100th second advantage.

[Allee]

I would say that there seems to be a gross exageration of how others compare new boards to older boards without the slightest bit of scrutiny. (I'm not talking about a 2010 compared to a 1987 Sims Blade or Kemper Bullet, but like a 2000 Burton or other model) "100 times" is a bit far fetched. Even twice is a bit much in my oppinion however more realistic.

That depends very much on who's doing the saying. If you're talking someone who's been riding since 1990 and has actually set feet on pretty much everything out there, do you not think they'd have a good idea as to what's better and what's not? Even if it's only better for them?

A hundred times is definitely unrealistic, but twice as good is not. I haven't ridden a lot of stuff, but I've ridden my dream board. For me, the difference between that and the alpine board I learned on, was that one, circa 2009, says "hey, you made a mistake - let me fix that for you" and one, circa 1997, says "hey, you made a mistake - see you in the hospital ..." To me, that's DEFINITELY better (and far less painful).

A good rider can ride anything, no question. But if a good rider has a 30 board quiver, are they likely to be riding the Kemper Bullet instead of the metal Coiler on a killer cord day on the hill? Unless it's retro day, I think not.

As for what you spend on a board, spend what you can live with. Not everybody is equal in that department, and that's cool. I have a custom board worth nearly $1000 at home - and yet so far this season, I've spent 3 days hacking up the hill on a Madd BX proto, that cost $150 used. More money = more fun? I'm thinking not.

[bumpyride]

I guess I am rethinking the fun aspect of it. For me the day is only as fun as the people you're riding with. I generally don't have all that much fun riding alone as I'm usually working on technique. That gets boring after about 2 hours or so, and if I was to have fun by myself on the slope, I'd probably get arrested for indecent exposure.

When I have the most fun is when there is 3 fun people all willing to go willy-nilly down the hill wherever it takes us. Give me a day where I'm buried up to my neck after a soft crash and enjoying the moment with my mates over 2 hours of working on technique any day. I really have the most fun when there's 3 of us ripping it up, or maybe not so ripping it up, but laughing about it. Crashing alone is not fun.

In these cases fun is not related to what I ride.

[photodad2001]

Caught a video clip of Tex haggling the price of his new board. He brought bobdea to help.

(This is all in fun people, if anyone thinks this is a serious post I have a new metal Kessler for sale for $15,000 that says Burton across the bottom, it was a misprint and is worth even more than that to collectors)

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[photodad2001]

Dude, true meditation would put you on any of the frozen planets I explore. I will suggest that you try to survive within your means.

Ever heard of Folks Wagon? or Daimler-Benz? or Dr. Ferdinald Porche. That is the beauty of the capitalist system as we know it. If you are advocating something different, trust me, you've got a sympathetic ear here. But please stop spewing out loads of rubbish and when you are called out, you try to switch or play the victim.

And to the fanboys and fangirls, I once knew a Burton fanboy. He never saw a Burton product he did not like until the two hole binding system. Why Burton? They are huge, over produce, drop the price of goods probably due to poor labor practices and is out to kill alpine snowboarding for whatever reason it chose. Hence the economic model photodad proposed for Alpine snowboarding.

Keep in mind that the folks that make Alpine equipment are just ordinary guys and girls trying to make a living, names like Sean Martin (my neighbor) of Donek, Chris Prior of Prior, Henri Nidecker of Nidecker, Fin Doyle of Bomber Industries (Trench Digger), Jeff Caron of Catek, Hansjuerg Kessler of Kessler, Sigi Grabner of SG Snowboards, Frank Dietzel of Virus, Bruce Varsava of Coiler comes to mind. I might have left out a few but each one of these guys I know personally and know the hard work they put into this sport. For you, photodad, to insinuate that they are not human beings trying to survive is completely out of line and clearly not in touch with reality except for the bogus economic concept you concocted.

That's it, that's all folks.

http://www.allboardssports.com

You are so far out there you don't even get the message I'm trying to get across. You personally know each and every owner of the biggest snowboard companies in alpine and the most expensive boards in the world. You are the last person to make a statement about the average joe carver and what he can and can't afford to ride.

[tex1230]

Here ya go, Bola. (And anyone else who doesn't want to deal with PD anymore)

http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/profile.php?do=addlist&userlist=ignore&u=6711

[Neil Gendzwill]

Thanks, Tex. Just what the doctor ordered.

[D.T.]

You personally know each and every owner of the biggest snowboard companies in alpine and the most expensive boards in the world.

yes, he knows them... maybe because he owns the only shop in the country where you can find all of these products on the wall any day of the year?!?

You are the last person to make a statement about the average joe carver and what he can and can't afford to ride.

oh, that's right. Bola only sells his products to us elitist snobs, he doesn't carry products to support the masses.

Sir, you are full of SH‡T!!! Relish in your own ignorance, but don't expect us to jump on your bandwagon

At some point you should really come up for air. Prolonged oxygen deprivation is not good for the brain!!!

[Donek]

You are so far out there you don't even get the message I'm trying to get across. You personally know each and every owner of the biggest snowboard companies in alpine and the most expensive boards in the world. You are the last person to make a statement about the average joe carver and what he can and can't afford to ride.

Bola does know all of us and I do use his input and knowledge of customers and what they want. I can't speak for the other manufacturers, but I would guess that they, at the very least, listen to what he has to say and factor it into decisions. There are actually a number of individuals on this forum who are on friendly terms with the majority of the manufacurers in this industry. Just go to SES. Myself, Chris, Bruce, and Frank all tend to show up.

Aside from that, I've found this poll excedingly informative. %16 percent of the market (less than $400) is completely outside the ability of any current alpine manufacturers grasp. Boards would have to be produced in large numbers in Asia to address that market, but the profit margins would be so low, the current market would make such an endeavor undesirable. There simply aren't enough carvers to support it either. That market is best left to the people wishing to purchase used boards.

The bulk of my product line and most others fall within that 66% willing to pay between $400 and $1000. The %17 willing to pay more than $1000 intrigues me. I'm left wondering how accurate this percentage is. Regardless, I'd be most curious to know what it is that makes a board worth more than $1000 to those individuals.

Thanks for a great poll Jack.

[newcarver]

Seems like you get what you pay for. If you want a quality constructed new board of any kind you are going to pay over $400 for it. There are some lower priced entry level carving boards for around that too. A lot of used boards for less than that that still have life left in them. I bought a new SG last year and it is a premo constructed board with race tune straight from the factory. I would suspect that a tune like that alone would run $100+. Just think of all the time you will get out of the price of your board. I would guess that you could get 50-60 or so days riding on a board easily before it is junk. So not that expensive if you look at it that way. You are also getting a board made in the USA (except for Canadian and EU) and keeping true innovators of the sport in business to develope more cool stuff for us to enjoy on the slopes. Bola is straight up and has help out a lot of carvers in the area.