Please dont yell at me.

[pokkis]

I've seen regular sunday carvers breaking lots of gear mainly bails, including my wife, and i must say that this was not due too loose binding setups.

Most of time major common thing has been very small binding angles. Suprisingly same very low angles as racers use . She has not had any accidents due i carefully inspect bails regularly with magnifier and replace them when is see any signs of damage. But my friends constantly carry spare parts and replace bails quite often after breakage during season.

[Bordy]

Bordy: you wrote:

Should i read that that they inspect their bindings regularly, as i expect.

If so that might be difference between "them" and us sunday carvers, related bindings.

Atlest i remeber days when i was riding with Burton bails, i inspected them with magnifier and saw starting breakage before they reall broke, and changed bails. That saved me lots of troubles for me on mid ninteens :rolleyes:

Pokkis, Each rider really deals with their own gear differntly. But as you have discovered, you can see and fix problems before they get worse. Thats the goal when inspecting gear. I do it daily but still break gear.

I have watched riders at events change bails and break the same bail again after just one run, so its almost a craps shoot..But then I she some of the biggest dudes ever from the Russian team riding Burtons that they have had for years.....

One year I watched Pat Farell from the Canadain Team Break a bail one run, then break a bail on the other binding the next run, then snap his board during his third, so that just proved to me anything can happen, He only weighs around 160lbs.

[pokkis]

Yes i see your point.

And i think one should never (on top level) change to bail not test ridden for real case. That way one can make sure that you have tested it has no basic issues and it has "settled down/formed" to shape that it does not change shape during your race run. Partly same way as F1 racers run tires in before using them in real fight.

Thanks Bordy, once again for your comment.

[Bordy]

I was sort of being a wise ass but was being specific about Dave. he claimed to of broken a huge amount of bindings for a guy who has only been riding a short time(four years) and even then admittedly only part time as he usually rides soft.

I'd say that smoking a pair of bindings every year for a weekend warrior is exessive. In other threads he's talked about getting ejected from bindings frequently as well. add it all together and it sounds like someone has bindings that are not adjusted properly.

seriously, you've been to the SES and ECES, you know what I'm talking about. there are some people that don't have their gear even close to set up right. I'm not talking perfected stance I am talking super basic stuff that boils down to safety.

when someone breaks four different brands of bindings in a few years who does not get a lot of hill time that says there's probably something wrong that the rider is doing.

I agree,

Some times I see people placing string and "extensions" of some sort on their toe clips, so they can close their binding, this almost always means they have their shiiit way to tight(some girls need the help though) I watch boots bend under the weight, Of course some times they are just to lose and cuase shock loading and fracture.

I know I haven't seen it all, some one out there has their set up all funky and is loving it everyday... so as always to each their own.

But there is alot of validity in the fact that Riders on the world cup use a prodect, I just laugh my asssss off when some on on Bomber thinks they are riding harder then a WC athlete...And if this is the case they should have the talent to ride out of a broken or realesed binding.......

I ride park, n rails with bindings and they hold up, but if I knuckle some thing or over shoot it and some thing breaks I am just ok with it..

I guess as a lifelong Pro you just accept that you break gear, thats what happens, in any sport.

I quess it would be alot like racing a car, **** is going to break.

But when you buy a car to drive to work with you think it should hold up, but it still breaks.....

[carvedog]

..But then I she some of the biggest dudes ever from the Russian team riding Burtons that they have had for years.....

That's me, but I don't ride hard. I am just an old fat bastard.

[carvedog]

I agree,

......I just laugh my asssss off when some on on Bomber thinks they are riding harder then a WC athlete...

True dat.

I used to think I was pretty bad ass and then I went to the qualifier at Park City and got my ass handed to me. Those guys rip.

[jburrill]

You guys are great. I feel like Ive been listening to a conversation at a ski bar full of hardbooters. I think, that my new Bombers are going to be a hoot on super hardpacked icy bulletproof groomed man made eastern snow. Which is what we always have here in Maine. If I go to a race, or ride plates in softer conditions, Ill probably use a binding with more flex. Period.

However, I have been developing my own binding. It incorperates the best of both worlds, or 3 worlds. Now, before I unveil my creation, I must say that this is only a prototype and undergoing an evolution. This probably should not be copied, used on snow or taken seriously by anyone. I will call this new prototype the...."Bombturdington". I have to do some finishing touches tonite, but will try to post photos by the end of the day tomorrow. "Bombturdington, its PH balanced".

[b0ardski]

I have images of my 1st frankenplate mods; Duret strap binder with cut out highback replaced by a cable. I miss the '80s:freak3:

[NateW]

I think Nate is a good base line for the recrational carver, he broke a binding and doesn't want to do it again so he buys what he thinks is the best binding out there for him based on his own ideas of durability. Perhaps thats his only requirement, that the binding is durable and will last for years and years.

I am just quessing here mind you.

Well, it was a very good guess. If your own "ideas of durability" lead you to believe that there's a more durable binding, please let me know what it is. I will give it serious consideration, because yeah, durability is my primary requirement.

Yes, breaking **** is part of the game. I don't mind breaking snowboards as long as I get a couple season out of them. I don't like it, but I'm accustomed to it, and I always bring a spare. But the thing about broken snowboard bindings is, they leave me in state where my knee is likely to break, and that is not acceptable. I don't have spares.

If I had not found bindings that I trust, I would have given up snowboarding. It's just a means to get air (carving passes the time between jumps), and snowboarding on unreliable gear is not worth the risk. Maybe I'd take up something safer instead, like hang gliding or sky diving.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

So you're an air addict on hard boots, eh?? Don't see too many of those any more. Crazy!

greg

[Bordy]

Well, it was a very good guess. If your own "ideas of durability" lead you to believe that there's a more durable binding, please let me know what it is. I will give it serious consideration, because yeah, durability is my primary requirement.

Yes, breaking **** is part of the game. I don't mind breaking snowboards as long as I get a couple season out of them. I don't like it, but I'm accustomed to it, and I always bring a spare. But the thing about broken snowboard bindings is, they leave me in state where my knee is likely to break, and that is not acceptable. I don't have spares.

If I had not found bindings that I trust, I would have given up snowboarding. It's just a means to get air (carving passes the time between jumps), and snowboarding on unreliable gear is not worth the risk. Maybe I'd take up something safer instead, like hang gliding or sky diving.

Nate,

You list that you broke a pair (one or both?) of Burton Variplates, what other bindings have you ridden and broken? I see this info....

I separated the top and bottom parts of an all-metal Nitro bindings, then ripped the screws out of the (metal) baseplate, then gave up on those. Bent the crap out of some Burton bails (similar scenario but smaller size - that one happened in moguls). Switched to Bombers and Cateks. Had similar issues when I was running bails (TD1, Catek WC), but never actually bent or broke the bails. Switched to intec and haven't had a problem since.

But I don't see any experance with New bindings from this decade? Plus when you ride intecs, you add more parts to the mix to fail, including the Fin tecs that had a recall issue at first? Oh yea and what do you weigh and how long and often do you ride.

and if these issues happened while jumping do you truley beleave you would rather have your leg fail and the binding hold up? Or the binding, boot or board break, and your body survies and you need to dump 250 into new bindings or 2500 to 25000 into doctor Bills? You say if the binding fails your knee is going to also but I have never seen a true injury from binding failure or realese, I have seen a lot of one footed tumbling and such I also watched a soft booter blow up there knee and binding but the inpact would have crushed them if their binding worked out.

Again just a reminder I am a pro so I have seen alot of binding failures. Not just one or two Or I read about them on BOL, I have probably watched 50+ realeses, including Bombers, Cateks and Phokkias Breaking.

I am just courious? From a coach, retailer, athlete, point of view??

As just a personal side note, when I ride Metal bindings and have a failure it is usally me ripping the binding off the board and destroying the inserst of the board, before the binding fails, Many other Pros have had the same experances. Not that its bad to have a binding that is bullet proof, I just like a differnt board feel.

[carvedog]

..... or 2500 into doctor Bills?

And that is just for the MRI and emergency visit.

[NateW]

But I don't see any experance with New bindings from this decade? Plus when you ride intecs, you add more parts to the mix to fail, including the Fin tecs that had a recall issue at first? Oh yea and what do you weigh and how long and often do you ride.

and if these issues happened while jumping do you truley beleave you would rather have your leg fail and the binding hold up? Or the binding, boot or board break, and your body survies and you need to dump 250 into new bindings or 2500 to 25000 into doctor Bills? You say if the binding fails your knee is going to also but I have never seen a true injury from binding failure or realese, I have seen a lot of one footed tumbling and such I also watched a soft booter blow up there knee and binding but the inpact would have crushed them if their binding worked out.

Again just a reminder I am a pro so I have seen alot of binding failures. Not just one or two Or I read about them on BOL, I have probably watched 50+ realeses, including Bombers, Cateks and Phokkias Breaking.

I am just courious? From a coach, retailer, athlete, point of view??

As just a personal side note, when I ride Metal bindings and have a failure it is usally me ripping the binding off the board and destroying the inserst of the board, before the binding fails, Many other Pros have had the same experances. Not that its bad to have a binding that is bullet proof, I just like a differnt board feel.

I switched to TDs about 10 years ago, TD SI's a year or so later, and haven't ridden much else since. Haven't seen a reason to, and haven't seen anything that looks stronger. I do have a pair of step-in Catek Olympics that I'm satisfied with, they're on a backup board. When I rode F2 Intecs I inspected them often and replaced them every year or two. I always knew they were the weakest link in the chain but they served me far better than bails did, there's just no comparison. Fintecs were a gamble, but I liked the odds so I took it, and I'm glad I did.

Like I said, if you know of something that you believe is stronger, I'd like to hear about it.

I'm 200lbs today, 6 feet tall, started riding in 1988 or so and switched to hard boots for the 1995/96 season (probably weighed 170 back then). I ride about 25 days a year. For me a "day" is at least 6 hours of riding, with a very short break in the middle to eat a sandwich, drink some water, and make yellow snow. (I don't count riding for a couple hours after work as a "day" - though it counts as fun, of course.)

I don't buy the theory that bindings are a mechanical fuse to blow before something else does. Those hard-landing releases were years ago, I've had a more since, and my legs are still intact. Tumbling with one boot in and one out still scares me a lot more than staying bolted in. Not that's it's a sure recipe for injury (obviously it's not, I'm still riding) but the risk is way too high IMO. Way, way worse than driving without a seatbelt. :) There's been at least one case of horrible injuries from one foot coming loose... it was well publicized on the forums due in part to the lawsuit that followed, I'm sure you must have stumbled on it.

I have yet to rip inserts out of a board, but I've delaminated several, mostly from bad landings. Board longevity was one of the reasons for going to stiffer boards recently. Not sure if it pays off but I'll know in a couple years.

[NateW]

So you're an air addict on hard boots, eh?? Don't see too many of those any more. Crazy!

greg

I get some funny looks. But like I said, carving is a great way to pass the time between jumps. :)

[jburrill]

here.

[b0ardski]

Nice:biggthump

I was going to put my Nitro stepin heels on burton bases (bigger footprint) but never got around to customizing the holes. Did you have to mod the TD1 blocks?

[Jack M]

here.

Clever, but what you've got there is just a TD1 with a larger footprint, i.e., dead spot.

[carvedog]

here.

FTW...?

[Bordy]

Clever, but what you've got there is just a TD1 with a larger footprint, i.e., dead spot.

I disagree, The base plate of burtons are pre bent to help eleminate the flatspot and flex a little with the board, also the burton bails are much softer and provide a bit of flex. I would just call it a stiffend burton with less chance of bail failure.

Jack Why you always hating on any binding that doesn't say Bomber, I like Bombers also but don't discount everything else? I could say what you have there is a TD1 thats not going to rip out your inserts and wreak your stick, IE lever on a fulcram..

What other bindings did you ride last year? Prove to me that you have first hand experance to be so bold online, this is a common topic between us.......

I still love ya but have to ask.

[b0ardski]

Clever, but what you've got there is just a TD1 with a larger footprint, i.e., dead spot.

aren't TD1s suspended on a center disc requiring toe&heel bumpers due to too small of a footprint?

[jburrill]

I didnt take these out yesterday but I will on Saturday morning. I think I will like them. Phiokka shims on the back heel and front toe. Just a little canting. The toe and heel plates line up perfectly with Burton plates. Hmmm, did Fin do this a long time ago? I always thought that all Burtons needed were beefier bails...

Sunday River is kicking ass right now.

[Erik J]

and if these issues happened while jumping do you truley beleave you would rather have your leg fail and the binding hold up? Or the binding, boot or board break, and your body survies and you need to dump 250 into new bindings or 2500 to 25000 into doctor Bills? You say if the binding fails your knee is going to also but I have never seen a true injury from binding failure or realese, I have seen a lot of one footed tumbling and such I also watched a soft booter blow up there knee and binding but the inpact would have crushed them if their binding worked out.

Again just a reminder I am a pro so I have seen alot of binding failures. Not just one or two Or I read about them on BOL, I have probably watched 50+ realeses, including Bombers, Cateks and Phokkias Breaking.

I am just courious? From a coach, retailer, athlete, point of view??

As just a personal side note, when I ride Metal bindings and have a failure it is usally me ripping the binding off the board and destroying the inserst of the board, before the binding fails, Many other Pros have had the same experances. Not that its bad to have a binding that is bullet proof, I just like a differnt board feel.

Bordy, I'm curious about your binding release vs injury statement. In my mind a one footed tumble is the kiss of death. It's encouraging to read that you've never seen a major injury from a one footed release (whether pulling inserts, breaking bails etc.). I imagine pros have a much better "defense mechanism" built into their skills if and when this was to happen.

Out of curiousity, would you mind going through what might happen if a foot released from the board while riding? On rides up the lift I think of these "what if" situations and try to imagine what I would do. Or even just share what you see the board want to do if a foot is released.

[pokkis]

I would also like to hear instructions what to do when that happens. I have some ideas but like to hear some correct ones too.

[bobdea]

Bordy, I'm curious about your binding release vs injury statement. In my mind a one footed tumble is the kiss of death. It's encouraging to read that you've never seen a major injury from a one footed release (whether pulling inserts, breaking bails etc.). I imagine pros have a much better "defense mechanism" built into their skills if and when this was to happen.

Out of curiousity, would you mind going through what might happen if a foot released from the board while riding? On rides up the lift I think of these "what if" situations and try to imagine what I would do. Or even just share what you see the board want to do if a foot is released.

did skier get hurt every time they fell before there were releasable bindings? same thing.

yeah, no one advises to fall with 1 foot out but in most situations nothing happens even though it's high risk.

[pokkis]

With skies i dont issue is relevant due both bindings have indenpendt relase mechnism