CarvCanada Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 Sweet video from www.carvingmachine.com go to "CarvingTheater" then go to C&C2003, then go to cc_2003_e10 (Edge 10 Special Edition) it's perty awesome. The guys have an odd style, pretty much Japanese Racing League style. Counter rotation, leaning forward, straight down the fall line really really fast... but they can C A R V E ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTA2R Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 i think it looks awesome. i've seen one of their vids before. is that more cross-through than the other 2 styles? --- Barry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy D Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 I almost made the mistake of pulling out my ski movies the other day. Looks like you made the mistake for me! :-p Awesome vid: that is a unique style, but looks like it might get painful after a full day. It looks like the rider is all hunched over! There's no doubt the rider can carve, but is it me, or does his style make him look like he's in recovery mode most of the time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 Barry, there is some cross-through happening there, but it's a little hard to tell with their style. I think they bend over at the waist too much, and the guy in blue really <i>tries</i> to touch the snow with his hand on toeside when he really doesn't need to. At times it looks like they're trying to get lower than the carve would naturally allow, by bending at the waist and reaching for the snow. (edit) Good observations Tommy. Notice Tommy's avatar - he's pretty far over, but with a nice balanced, poised, upright upper body. I like it. What's up with the 30 meg download for a 3 minute movie though?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirror70 Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 Their knees look very quiet - I'd almost even say stiff. It looks like they're riding with casts on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTA2R Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 hey Jack, I def. see what you're talking about, noticed that a bit myself. I downloaded one of the other videos, too. A few of the heelside carves he touches snow with both hands and it seems effortless/natural on his part, but I def. see the waist bending and snow reaching on toeside turns. reminds me of myself last season, lol. seems like you're not too impressed with their form though? is it me or are these guys pretty darn flexible, esp. when they're doing grabs? heelside, looks like they're laid out pretty far, too. overall, strikes me as a very flashy style (which i really like). of course they are moving along nicely, too. possibly tiring, too, with the exagerrated motions. regardless, i want to carve like them. is it possible on my entry level Alp 157? (please don't laugh too hard) --- Barry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 Not sure how they're doing that with their knees almost locked. They might be in big trouble if there was ever any variation in the snow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 Barry, No, I have to admit I'm not too impressed. It seems like they are trying to be flashy for flashy's sake, not because it does anything good for their edge hold. Notice the *novice* skiers they're riding by (and cutting off). They shouldn't look like they're trying so hard on such easy terrain. Also their knees are not very dynamic, which limits their fluidity. I just try to ride as smooth, quiet, and clean as possible. Not that I am king of the mountain (and I have been out of practice since starting a family), but it's what works for me. Like if you look at this photo of me, there's nothing flashy going on, but I'm pretty darn close the ground. My wife (an obviously biased observer) once paid me a nice compliment at the ECES a few years ago. I was playing follow the leader down a trail with another carver and I was impressed with his carving. I asked my wife if I carved as well as him. She said I did but with a much different style. She said he looked really intense and fast and aggressive, but that I was matching his carves at the same speed while looking more graceful, like I wasn't trying that hard. That's my goal while carving. All that aside, I applaud these guys for spreading the good word, and getting people excited about carving. The video has tons of value in that regard. Same with the videos at extremecarving.com. Not a technique a newbie should try to emulate, but damn fun to watch and get the juices flowing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirror70 Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 showoff ;) :D :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 Originally posted by mirror70 showoff ;) :D :D heh, yes, that was staged. what, I can't join the fun?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTA2R Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 intentionally cutting off anyone, esp. the newb is def. not cool. and I agree the slopes aren't too challenging. I can't disagree with you re: their technique- you're the expert. for me, though, I think there is a balance b/w perfecting technique and just having a good time with riding. I think that's what it's about for most of us. hell, we're such a small demographic, it really wouldn't hurt to be a bit more visible, vocal, esp. if we wanna get noticed by youngins (as long as one isn't a real meathead) I was certainly stoked watching Vlad last year, that made me wanna make the transition even more. and I would think that riding style can be a reflection of one's personality. my .02. --- Barry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 hell I got so caught up reading the ESL translations that I didnt even watch the movies! I remember one of theirs tho, and yeah...the riders seemed like they were moving way too much, and almost seemed out of control at times economy of motion cany still be pretty damn stylistic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamran Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 Thanks for pointing out this video. Now I can see much beter why counter rotation is being called "ugly" in so many tech articles. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 Oh of course, at the end of the day it's all about having the most fun, unless you're racing and then it's about having fun while going the fastest. But one shouldn't concern oneself with style over technique - style is a byproduct of technique, not the other way around. Usually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTA2R Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 "But one shouldn't concern oneself with style over technique - style is a byproduct of technique, not the other way around. Usually." i like that quote, I'll remember that. I got too caught up in the entertainment value of the video. --- Barry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 I'm seldom on slopes that neatly groomed. If I rode with my legs that locked I'd get bucked pretty quick I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 Originally posted by Kent These guys rock! IMO, this is what is missing in the US. No one is stepping forward and showing fun. Including you and me. Personally I can never get anyone to handle a video camera properly, and I'm now at a point in life where I don't have the time to make a video anymore. The precious few times I get to the mountain now are all about ME, baby. Although the ECES04 video footage is now in the hands of someone who can devote some time to it, so that should be fun. We sit and complain about technique or static pictures...and then some guy steps in and says he's the "best carver on the planet". I didn't say that. I do think videos like these are fun and valuable in that they get people excited about carving. I just get nervous when people want to take them as instructional aids. It can be done, but it's less than ideal and can give you some bad habits. I know from experience, when I used to try to emulate P&J after watching Chill a hundred times in the fall of 1990. Yes, it helped me start carving, but I also rode around waving my arms in the air and trying to eurocarve without really knowing how for a couple years before an instructor grabbed me on the hill and suggested I try something different. He made me realize the basic fundamentals of what we are trying to accomplish, and how little it has to do with looking stylish. That changed my carving for the better, forever. And it so happens that when you are carving well, you tend to look stylish anyway without trying. It's funny no one talks about Gilmore cutting off skiers in his video. Haven't seen this vid. Link? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markp Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 Hey! Thanks! That was a great fix..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 kent...I dont see this as an example of ethnocentric judgement. no one said "those japanese dont know how to do it right. they should watch the ____ " thats a stretch I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baka Dasai Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 I don't think these guys' style is very representative of Japanese alpine. Check <a href="http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2196">this thread for videos of riders with typical Japanese style</a>. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 the site is in japanese. thats the only reason I made the reference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baka Dasai Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 Originally posted by spy45c Minho Bong is one of korean alpine pro. not japanese. True, but there's a bunch of clips on the Min Ho Bong site, and they feature a bunch of different riders, most of whom appear to be Japanese (they have Japanese names). Regardless, all the riders in those videos, both Korean and Japanese, have much the same style, which is the same style I see amongst the good alpine riders in Japan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 and the connection to ethnocentrism? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 Originally posted by Kent If the video was linked as used as a learning tool "hey...I ride like this guy and I need some help with my heel edge slippage", I could understand the critique. But, that wasn't the context. K Perhaps I jumped on it a little prematurely, but Barry seemed to be asking about technique. And.... I love you too Kent! :D You should post a link to that video of you pulling your foot out of a binding - the carving preceeding the crash is really fluid. Pretty sure that was you in the clip I'm thinking of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 Originally posted by Kent My comment was directed at the fact that "we" look at videos as a means to criticize rather than to praise. If the video was linked as used as a learning tool "hey...I ride like this guy and I need some help with my heel edge slippage", I could understand the critique. But, that wasn't the context. AFAIK any video or picture posted is fair game for comment. You can't throw up some footage and say "only say nice things today, my ego is a bit fragile". I find it far more interesting when people pick this stuff apart technically rather than just give the stock "whoo-hoo, I am so stoked about the upcoming season" comment. Comments about what they're doing right would also be appreciated, because they must be doing something right to hold those turns at those speeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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