Best way to prevent heel lift inside boot?

[SWriverstone]

I've experienced a moderate amount of heel lift inside my rear boot. Among other things, it was responsible for a horrendous blister on the side of my heel at SES—very bad.

I recently replaced my ancient liners with some new Deeluxe thermal-molded liners, and that definitely helped. The new liners fit more closely after molding them...but I'm still getting some heel lift.

Some have suggested clamping down more on the 2nd boot strap (the one over your instep)...but if I crank it down any more my foot will get gangrene from lack of circulation...so that can't be the solution.

Any other ideas? Do other people have some heel lift and just live with it?

Scott

[ohiomoto]

Start with a boot that fits! :)

Okay, just kidding. You might look into adding a shim or some sort of padding to the tongue of the boot or putting a pad around the back of the leg around the Achilles tendon. Basically, you need the more hold around the 2nd and 3rd buckles and that will hold the heal. Any good boot fitter should be able to help.

[Rob Stevens]

You could put a strip of velcro on the back of your liner, with the matching piece on the inside of your shell.

If your liner is lifting out, this should work. If your foot is lifting out of the liner, you have a sizing problem.

[Petrol]

my old Burton Reactors came with a upside down 'V' shaped pad that sticks onto the liner, wrapping around the achilles tendon. When the liner is in the shell, the pad forces the liner to tighten up around the achilles, thus aiding in holding the heal down.

I replaced those thin pads with some I made out of thicker neoprene for a bit better performance.

[Pat Donnelly]

Go to a bootfitter or try an Ankle Wrap

http://www.tognar.com/boot_heater_warmer_fitting_dryer_canting_dryers_ski_snowboard.html#bootshims

[fin]

Follow these instruction to do the "Shell Test" and then come back here and tell us the results.

http://www.bomberonline.com/store/boots/Sizing_boots.pdf

[Galen]

Heel frames. They look like the ankle wraps that Pat posted, only made of moderatley stiff plastic. You have to put them on the outside of the liner after they are heated and allowed to "set up" inside the boot as the liner cools(with your foot in, of course). I got mine at the time I was fitted at a ski shop.

[GeoffV]

Scott,

ha edit, Fin beat me, his document is exactly what I'm referring to.

Everyone has different feet so you need to be careful on the advice you take from all of us. I think there was a good thread about boot fitting where Dave Morgan (YYZ) gave a good write up on boot fitting.

If your feet are somewhat normal, meaning that you pretty much have a standard width with nothing funky going try this out:

Take your liner out of your boot, step in to your shell and see how many fingers you can stack and squeeze behind your heel. If you can get 3 plus you've got a boot that is to big.

I was able to stack 3.5 fingers behind my heels and went down a whole shell size. I do want to point out that this might not work for everyone and the results will vary for people.

When I went down a shell size and my heel lift disappeared, but on the flip side I had other problems that came up. I also just recently added custom molded foot beds (from Eric Beckmann) and needed some work done on the boots to get them to fit right.

I now have cold feet and I'm hoping that remolding them will resolve that issue. I needed to create some pockets on the top of my arch to give my feet space for better circulation. My toe box needed to be punched out (so my toes could spread out more in the toe box).

Keep in mind that it can take some time to work these issues out, but once you do it's the best thing for your riding.

I've been riding for a long time and just this season finally sucked it up and ponied up for some custom foot beds. I had no idea what a custom foot bed would do besides giving me more comfort. They actually make riding easier and reduce your quad burn, turns are very easy and require a lot less input. I now regret that I should have done that years ago.

In order of priority I say:

1. Correct boots size

2. Good thermo or foam injected liners

3. custom foot beds

[SWriverstone]

Thanks for the feedback all. I'm 95% sure my boots are the correct size. I did the "shell test" and can just fit 2 fingers. The boots/liners seem to fit perfectly—they're snug, with my toes touching the tip of the liners which are right up against the tips of the shell. Slightly tight, but not uncomfortably so.

The problem is definitely my heel lifting inside the liner (not the liner lifting in the shell). Maybe I just have a skinny heel? Again, it's not significant, but enough to notice (and possibly cause a blister when riding all day for several days like I did at SES!). It's not an issue if I'm just riding for 2-3 hours.

BTW, I have 3 degrees of heel lift on my rear binding.

I wasn't aware of the heel frames or ankle wraps, so maybe that's the way to go. I'll look into those.

Scott

EDIT: Geez, Tognar has all kinds of pads and wraps 'n stuff! (Figures, LOL.) Not sure which to try between the C-pads, L-pads, or ankle wrap pads?

[Steve Prokopiw]

low volume ankles with heels that portrude out,so my heel lift issues have always been a concern.Moldable liners don't always fill the voids around oddly shaped ankles and heels.I have always used external pads of varying thickness stuck onto the outside of the liner to correct these issues.I fit them while my liners are on my feet but out of the boots.I have usually ended up placing the padding on either side of the achilles(with a notch to allow the achilles to fit without undue pressure)and around the ankle bones after cutting to the shape desired;making sure to taper the edges of thicker padding when cutting it.This will help prevent hot spots or irritation caused by abrupt or thick edges that you would otherwise feel through the liner.

There are no real rules to this and bootfitting is not an exact science,so you can experiment if you are not going to spend 250.00 and what could be multiple trips to a bootfitter.Even the good ones don't always get it right the first or second attempt.For those lucky enough to have it right the first time or two,it can be well worth it however.

[Jack M]

Intuition Liners.

[ohiomoto]

low volume ankles with heels that portrude out,so my heel lift issues have always been a concern.

I have the same ankles and heals plus a knob on the back of each heal. OUCH!!! Luckily, I've been able to find boots that fit well and I have access to a shop so I can fix anything that needs done.

As far as boot fitting goes, I do all of my own (again, I have access to a shop :) ). No matter who does the work, YOU have to take the time to diagnose the problem. A boot fitter can help you if you need it and they can help find the solution, but they can't feel your feet so it's really your job to figure that part out.

One other thing to consider is adding footbed if you don't already have one . Often that will take up a little volume and put your ankle a little higher in the boot, closer to the tongue. You can even go to your local running store and buy off the shelf insoles with various amount of support if you don't want to pay for a custom insole.

One thing to keep in mind if you go with the off the shelf insole is that most boots have a bit rise to the heal. Sort of like a women's shoe with a low "heal". If yours does, you might experience a high spot just in front of your heal/through the arch. This will cause you pain after some time on the slopes. The more Gs you pull, the worse it will hurt! lol (Some boots have a straight ramp angle and this is not a problem). The other area of concern is the inside of the arch. Boots are stiff. It you have too much material against the side of the boot it will over-support the arch. To avoid such pain, it's very important that the insole interfaces properly with the boot.

I've experimented with Sole Brand insoles in my ski boots with great success, but it took some time on the belt sander to get them to work in the boots. If you go this route, send me a pm and I can clue you in on how to make them fit right. It's not hard, but there are a few things to look for before you even put the liner back in the boot.

It would be best to see an experienced boot fitter and go from there. Good Luck.

[kjl]

I don't know how you molded your liners, but I always mold with the buckles fairly loose, so that when they are stiff, I can get them really tight by tightening the buckles more. A tighter fit all over seems to decrease heel lift.

[bobdea]

foam injection liners

[queequeg]

I don't know how you molded your liners, but I always mold with the buckles fairly loose, so that when they are stiff, I can get them really tight by tightening the buckles more. A tighter fit all over seems to decrease heel lift.

+1 what ken said. Mold the liner with the buckles just tight enough to provide a bit of pressure, but no more, or your liners will mold packed out. Also make sure to put a book under your toe such that your heel is bearing down into the heel cup with a lot of weight. otherwise, keep a bit of tension on your acchiles tendon while molding (do not lock your knees. This will decrease the volume in your achilles heel while molding and result in a tighter fit.

If the new thermo liner you are referring to is the speed liner, I doubt you will have much luck with them ... in my experience those are way too soft and thin to do much good. Get yourself a pair of Dalbello ID Golds - they kick ass.

[Dan]

Resurrecting this blast from the past. I'm not sure if my liners are packing out, my style has changed, or what, but I noticed substantial heel lift on my back foot (right foot) in my last two sessions. The boots are definitely not too big: I measure around 27.5 cm and I'm using a 27.0 liner which fits very tight, but maybe I have skinny ankles? 

My liners don't have a ton of days on them, maybe about 100, but they have been molded twice. Is it worth molding them again, keeping the buckles a little looser this time, or is it time for new liners? Sounds like there's consensus that is a better option then using more heel lift on the binding, right? I use 3 degrees of heel lift (TD2s) on my right boot, and would consider trying a 6 degree disc, but of course they are not so easy to find these days. 

[ursle]

What shells, what liners?

[Jack M]

Expensive solution: UPZ or Mountain Slope boots, Intuition liners.

Cheap quasi-solution: http://www.tognar.com/ankle-wrap-pads-pair/

[daveo]

53 minutes ago, Dan said:

My liners don't have a ton of days on them, maybe about 100

My dealer said liners get between 80-100 days. 

[Dan]

8 hours ago, ursle said:

What shells, what liners?

Good question - they're Deelux Indys. They're from the age of zip straps, not real buckles. The liners are Deeluxe Thermo liners. 

Edited March 13, 2018 by Dan

[Dan]

41 minutes ago, daveo said:

My dealer said liners get between 80-100 days. 

Thank you, I didn't know that!

[jburk]

The Mountain Shop in PDX is an Intuition dealer; they carry some stock, and can order what they don't carry if you know the size and model you want.  The upside to going through them (besides saving the shipping costs on the liner from BC) is that they'll provide heat molding service as part of the sale, while charging you the same price for the liner as is listed on the Intuition web site.  The downside is that it's quicker if you order direct from Intuition, but then I think the Mtn Store charges $40 if you bring in a liner you purchased elsewhere to get fitted.

They fit my Intuition liners into my UPZs as part of the sale (took about 6 or 7 days longer than ordering direct), and they did a second molding for a few minor tweaks free of charge about a week after the first session.

Edited March 13, 2018 by jburk

[digger jr]

2 hours ago, ursle said:

What shells, what liners?

Pics.

[David Kirk]

One thing to keep in mind is that the Deeluxe design has the buckle that goes over the top of the ankle rather high and pointed back as much as it does down. This design does a good job of pushing the foot back in the boot but a pretty poor job of pulling it down.

I've modified my boots to change the angle of the strap so that it pulls down as much or more than it pulls back and this has stopped my heel lift problems.

Before this I tried a number of things with limited success. The best was using double sticky carpet tape between the line and the shell in the Achilles area. This was OK but no where near as good as changing the strap angle.

My boots are in my locker at the hill so I can't take a photo of them right now but will try to remember to do so the next time I'm up there.

I hope that helps.

dave

[digger jr]

Had to modify Gloria’s rear boot. This is working well now.