Michael Pukas Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 After being out of the carving scene for a few years, it was really eye opening to ride some of the new boards @ the SES '09. The new shapes and construction are awesome! I was really impressed w/ Prior's 183 WCRM and Coiler's 185x20 Monster. :D It's clear to me that when designed properly, the metal sheets have made carving boards perform on a higher level than previous boards - maybe I should say more forgiving and easier to ride well. But are there drawbacks? I'm a bit concerned about the delicacy of this new generation of metal boards - Prior's red demo board got kinked by *someone* @ the SES, and there are a few threads around here documenting damaged boards. And it seems once they are damaged, they are forever wall art. How much do the new shapes - hammer head nose, taper, rounded turned up tail - contribute to the way the new boards ride? I wonder how a 185 Monster w/out the metal would compare to the same shape metal board (adjusting the construction so the flex patterns where similar)? So what do you think? Is it worth throwing down the extra cash for a better performing, but more delicate board? I can see me justifying it for a strickly groomer board, but for an all mtn board that would see some trees and other dicey conditions... not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Houghton Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 short answer Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shred Gruumer Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Being the owner of a Coiler metal board that was made in 2005 I think it has to depend on how they are made.. I would be curious too... not tooting any horns but Coiler has always used a topsheet on the metal boards excepte for my naked monster..but that still had risers on it... durability so far hasn't been an issue but I would be interested on which one are ending their life eary.. even Coiler.. I only see what is posted like you.. so thats intersting to me enough.. Im happy that none of my stuff has taken an early grave.. and I hope that trend continues.. it certainly suck spending money on a metal board that doesn't last a season.. my input if it doesn't then a replacement should be made not just a few buck off your next one .. because at that point I would want a replacement I would move on.. Metal deffinetly has change the riding and for the better.. its not a trade off I just got riding a Virus Gladiator vs a metal board and hands down the metal is always a smoother ride.. yea the Virus was fun ..but you needed to be spot on... and not all are up to that level.. but even if your at that level.. then why work so hard to make it happen.. Im look forward to the future and watch how the construction improves to incorporate metal from failure.. all will be there it a question of when.. So far I know which one i choose but its all up to you and what you expect or are seeing.. Yea if you could get an all glass board to feel like metal and cut like metal it would be the shiiiit. Some come close but the weight is so much more. you still get that ting feeling and harmonic vibration which of yet still is there with glass .. Im sure Glass board can be there... but haven't found any yet.. so maybe thats is the next step ..using modern material of charecteristics of damp metal and edge hold.. That I think someone will do.. its a matter of time... but it seems like its just one repeating circle that goes round and round.. But thats keeping up with technology just like skis.. every year theres something better.. What the hell am I typing... doh!! RSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 What the hell am I typing... doh!! RSS I ask the same:lurk: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCrimson Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Been hit and delammed..the metal..unaffected. It's the topsheet that peeled away from the carbon, which would happen whether the board was metal or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coloradoking Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 metal boards arent fragile, the original kesslers were for whatever reason, but now everything works better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gleb Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Metal boards don't have that pop you get from boards like my Madd 170. I like the feeling of the Madd but there is alot less room for error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nekdut Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Yea if you could get an all glass board to feel like metal and cut like metal it would be the shiiiit. Some come close but the weight is so much more. you still get that ting feeling and harmonic vibration which of yet still is there with glass .. Im sure Glass board can be there... but haven't found any yet.. so maybe thats is the next step ..using modern material of charecteristics of damp metal and edge hold.. Or you could seek out a classic Madd 158 :eplus2: :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Ong Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 For a dedicated groomer board it's a no brainer , for all around use i would wait a while.I know people who have just gotten metal AM type boards, hopefully we'l get some feedback soon. Metal boards don't have that pop you get from boards like my Madd 170. I like the feeling of the Madd but there is alot less room for error. You can get good pop off the board if you shift your weight back to the tail before you transition, i guess riding a more demanding older board is akin to driving an older sports car without all the fancy suspension and active systems eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotbeans Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 I wonder (because I've yet to ride a metal board) if going from a glass board (ie: lively) to a metal will be like my experience with going from an "old school" ski (trad. sidecut) to a shaped ski? I started skiing early and fell in love with moguls/tree's/jumps. I forget what year it was that when I went to update my ski's, all that were available at my local shop were the "new" shape ski's. Rep said "ohh, way easier to turn. You just get up on the edges.". Well, after spending a day on a set of demo's, I realized that I HATED these new ski's. Where was the pop? Load the nose? Pffft. Who wants to ride centered and just sway from side-to-side? Boring. Everything I loved about skiing seemed to NOT happen with the new shape ski's. So what is it about carving on these boards that makes you want to beat your body into the ground day after day?? For me, it's the high speed gs turns down a black, wondering if I'll get my balance transition down perfectly,or will I get over the nose too much and wash out the back..or will it be too far back and straightline for the tree's? Or, same slope, trying to pull hard, short radius, deep carves until my legs fold? ..Could be looking ahead 20-30 ft tracing the best line through crud, ruts, mounds, ice and trying to maintain form, a hard carving edge and balance (and a bit of style thrown in..). Or, as someone here labeled airing out during transitions, "porpoising". I'm addicted to pushing my riding up to the failure point and trying to figure out how to extend that limit. I'll probably not get a metal board anytime soon.. at least until I'm older and want "easier"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~tb Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 I have 3 boards if anyone wants to feel metal VS glass. I have 3 185's, all the same shape all the same taper and flex (or pretty darn close). board one is Traditional Glass construction board two is a Prototype Kevlar with titinal strips board three is carbon and metal construction board. (all Donek) Im not riding the boards enough right now. . . if you live in the MA/VT/NH/RI/CT region and want to borrow them, I might be able to lend them out with an understanding that you break em (or damage em) you buy em. they all have matched tunes right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chubz Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 In light of what beans says, my days of "White Knuckle Fever" are over, since I got my new Metal Coiler 77T, but it is in a good way. What I have discovered about my new ride is that I can now really focus on my technique without having to worry about getting jacked into the trees. Some of my other boards, it seemed like I was riding with my hand on the emergency brake, "just in case". Also in relation to what you say beans, about pushing yourself to your limits that is how I had ridden the past 7 years and it has put me in a variety of scenarios, most commonly shotguning into the woods at least 6-7 times. I have purposefully bought boards a bit too stiff for me just to see if I could tame them. Some worked out, others didnt. I was all about stressing my riding limits. The 77T has still given me that pop when I push it, but I know coming out of it, it will allow me to get back to business. others boards would have jacked me with whiplash or slamming me to the deck. I find myself popping more air out of turns and picking lines thru questionable things, which make sit fun. It has also allowed me to get better at picking lines in mid turn and read the snow, bumps, trenches, etc. It has made my riding easier, at the same time, given me the confidence that it will hold on anything, thus allowing me to fiddle in beginning, mid turn, end and transitions. I have had it for about 5 weeks now and can say that I am only beginning to learn what it can do. It reminds me of the fun I use to have on my MADD 158 b4 it snapped. Also riding on the ice coast it made days that I would have normally packed in (boilerplate, compressed death cookies, crud, slop, moguled up headwalls, etc), fully fun and pleasurable. Today was a prime example, JBS and I rode at Blue, it was 55* yesterday, slop on the hill then rained last night past 10 pm. When we arrive this morning it was a brisk 27* and that wet potatoes that they groomed before freezing froze into the hardest conditions I have seen in 30 years of skiiing and boarding. Riding over it, you only truly saw a pencil thin line, if that. JBS was on his fiberglass Coiler and he is not shy about getting on it and for the first time in 7 years of riding with him, I saw him feathering his way to the side in certian parts of the run adn not getting on it. He indicated he had a tough time flxing the board that was built to his specs. The frozen cord was a bit to get use to, but once I did, the Metal Coiler held on it and I was actually carving on ice, but you had to be precise with your technique or the eddge would pop and you would slide until the ice gods decided they wanted you to stop. I would have stay into the afternoon on the hardest day, but had to run. I also love how it doesnt even know those icy scrape areas from skiers exist. That in itself is the reasson to buy, especially if you ride into late morning and afternoon, once verything gets scraped. I sorta miss those white knuckle days, but since on the metal, I will never go back. My days of grinding my teeth down when taking a run are over. My legs thank me as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotbeans Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Chubz, nice write-up on your experiences w/ your new metal. - And, since we both ride practically the same conditions, your insight connected well. I'm thinking now the biggest benefit to metal is when riding the most difficult conditions... it just smooths things out better (correct?). hmmm. My knee's do remind me I'm not 30 anymore. Maybe if I get out that way next weekend we could have a mini-demo session?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Chubz, nice write-up on your experiences w/ your new metal. - And, since we both ride practically the same conditions, your insight connected well. I'm thinking now the biggest benefit to metal is when riding the most difficult conditions... it just smooths things out better (correct?). hmmm. My knee's do remind me I'm not 30 anymore. Maybe if I get out that way next weekend we could have a mini-demo session?? the best I can give you is, with skis take a decent race ski from the 80s and compare it to a race ski without it maybe from the 60s, similar geometry but metal and a refined flex do quite a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingbat Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Metal boards don't have that pop you get from boards like my Madd 170. I like the feeling of the Madd but there is alot less room for error. The Coiler X-4 pops. I rode it back to back with my Madd 170 F2. More to do with sidecut and core profile than the material I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galen Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Pros: Makes a jackass like me ride better then I am. Cons:Makes a jackass like me ride better then I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gleb Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 The Coiler X-4 pops. I rode it back to back with my Madd 170 F2. More to do with sidecut and core profile than the material I think. Gotta check that thing out then :) thanks for the info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkaholic Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 MP, I have '06 SG 185 Race T that gets used most weekends for my carving tool. It gets tossed off jumps, 360'd and carved hard. SG's have a top sheet over the titanal and there are no signs of d'lam or any other types of damage. I will only be purchasing metal from now on. Ink Bola will probably have it's twin (SG) at the LCS for you to demo. 1 week to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gleb Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 MP,I have '06 SG 185 Race T that gets used most weekends for my carving tool. It gets tossed off jumps, 360'd and carved hard. SG's have a top sheet over the titanal and there are no signs of d'lam or any other types of damage. I will only be purchasing metal from now on. Ink Bola will probably have it's twin (SG) at the LCS for you to demo. 1 week to go. ask Geoff how the coilers handle in the park I just started going into the park and a Coiler is a little pricey to snap with a screwed up landing. Just learning the 360, but I'm using my F2 SL which I won't cry over if I snap it. I don't think the longevity of the boards are questioned when carving, its more about the lift line damages or from hitting stubbies. Most of the damage on my metal coiler is from standing up against a window at a resort and someone knocking it over. Hope i can send it off to bruce this summer for some minor repairs. edit: with this post i hit 2,000 posts! yay! hardboot wizard! not really though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Glynn Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Well I screwed up this quote from hot beans so here it is the best I could fix it Hot bean's Quote "I started skiing early and fell in love with moguls/tree's/jumps. I forget what year it was that when I went to update my ski's, all that were available at my local shop were the "new" shape ski's. Rep said "ohh, way easier to turn. You just get up on the edges.". Well, after spending a day on a set of demo's, I realized that I HATED these new ski's. Where was the pop? Load the nose? Pffft. Who wants to ride centered and just sway from side-to-side? Boring. Everything I loved about skiing seemed to NOT happen with the new shape ski's." End Hot beans quote. My reply: Don't know what you demoed but there are so many great skies out there now that I can't understand how you would like the old over the new.But you are talking about your own experience so there is no arguing with you. IMO though there is nothing that can be done on the old that can't be done better on the new . As far as metal goes in snowboards. I love it. Yes I agree that glass has more pop but when I'm carving (and yes I like to go fast) I like my edge in the snow right now. My Prior wcr metel is so quick it makes up for any loss of pop. If I want to get air in between turns believe me I can get it three feet of the ground if I want. But left to it's own it will hug the slope. Give metal a try, throw all your aggression at it and I'll bet you'll be surprised. If not, buy glass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Prokopiw Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 At SES I demoed several metal boards and liked a couple of them very much.None of them,however,had the energy and snap and spring of the G Force 171 I took home.It was the most energetic of the boards I tried, and it suited my style and aggressiveness.Here at home on a smaller but steeper mountain it is still showing how well it handles when ridden hard; but it is also remarkably well mannered,just not as silky smooth and easy as some of the metals like the Alpine Punk or the Prior BSquared(these two came close to the gforce though) and 177x21,or the Virus Scalpel.I like to catch air a lot,including some of the bigger jumps in our park and that's another reason I stuck with glass/carbon.(the GForce has a carbon topsheet) Any of those metal boards I would happily buy as a part of my quiver as an 'easy' board(if I had the dough) but as an everyday aggressive board I liked the GForce best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Pukas Posted March 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 MP,I have '06 SG 185 Race T that gets used most weekends for my carving tool. It gets tossed off jumps, 360'd and carved hard. SG's have a top sheet over the titanal and there are no signs of d'lam or any other types of damage. I will only be purchasing metal from now on. Ink Bola will probably have it's twin (SG) at the LCS for you to demo. 1 week to go. thanks bro - love to try it! I've been eyeing the SG's @ Bola shop, and have been wanting to check one of them out for some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gleb Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 At SES I demoed several metal boards and liked a couple of them very much.None of them,however,had the energy and snap and spring of the G Force 171 I took home.It was the most energetic of the boards I tried, and it suited my style and aggressiveness.Here at home on a smaller but steeper mountain it is still showing how well it handles when ridden hard; but it is also remarkably well mannered,just not as silky smooth and easy as some of the metals like the Alpine Punk or the Prior BSquared(these two came close to the gforce though) and 177x21,or the Virus Scalpel.I like to catch air a lot,including some of the bigger jumps in our park and that's another reason I stuck with glass/carbon.(the GForce has a carbon topsheet)Any of those metal boards I would happily buy as a part of my quiver as an 'easy' board(if I had the dough) but as an everyday aggressive board I liked the GForce best. Thats probably because metal boards have a larger benefit on the ice, which I bet you guys are lucky to see none of. My freshly tuned Madd compared to the freshly tuned (by the same guy) Coiler is much more of a challenge to ride on ice. My form is far from perfect, but the metal compensates for whatever I do wrong pretty well. You can get good pop off the board if you shift your weight back to the tail before you transition, i guess riding a more demanding older board is akin to driving an older sports car without all the fancy suspension and active systems eh? I love doing that, but I can only do that on the coiler when conditions are prime. The car analogy is exactly how I think of it. Especially if you ride an old board with old bindings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Since getting on my Coiler 177 Am-t I have never rode better, is it the board or is it me... Board or me:argue: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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