eddie Posted August 9, 2004 Report Share Posted August 9, 2004 Originally posted by lonerider Sweet rail. Did he come off straight or 90'd the rest of the way and rode away switch (that would have been awesome)? The rail setup is nice as well... it's like super wide and smooth. Only the kinked rails at Kirkwood are like that... and they leave a 2-3 foot gap from the ramp (makes them "thrilling"). Gotta avoid the tindy grab though... it screams freestyle newbie ;) (i'm just kidding) He came off strait. Look at the nose flexing, it's a 196 F2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonerider Posted August 9, 2004 Report Share Posted August 9, 2004 Originally posted by Phil Follow this link to the def. of a Rocket Air: http://www.transworldsnowboarding.com/snow/instruction/lexicon/1,14020,,00.html?search=Search&by_letter=R&by_term=&last_result=9&this_page=2 you may be thinking of a cross-rocket. Rockets, cross-rockets and most other types of grabs I have found are doable in hardboots. I have yet to find a type of grab that cannot be done on both setups, but I would like to hear a challenge to that. They are not always as stylish or tweaked out, and they sometimes take more airtime, but they are doable. Well sure I think most of the the "grabs" are techically doable in hardboots. But unless you do a lot of yoga, I find doing something like a swiss-cheese air (back hand reaching between the legs and grabbing the heelside edge in FRONT of the front bindings) to be extremely difficult. Of course, that is assuming that you don't count the leg positioning since you really can't "bone" out you legs. Like a nosebone mute grab, which a regular mute grab, but you poke out the nose and bone the leg so it makes a sharp angle with the board. Because of the high stance angle and lack of any medial flex, I seriously doubt any hardbooter in the world, using regular hardboot equipment could do something what the person below is doing. Now all I'm saying that that "some" tricks are next-to-impossible to do in hardboots. I'm NOT saying that hardbooters can't do freestyle, just that the rigid binding system makes certain movements extremely difficult (you can also argue that "who needs" these tricks... again, I'm not discussing that point... just thinking of the physical aspects of doing freestyle in hardboots). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted August 9, 2004 Report Share Posted August 9, 2004 Originally posted by lonerider I was wondering about that myself and actually looked it up. I always thought mute grabs were between the bindings, but I think people used to call grabbing in front of the foot on the toeside edge a mute as well. Transworld seems to say that a rocket IS a mute grab... but with the leg boned out so the board is pointing straight up. ===================== Mute Air - The front hand grabs the toe edge either between the toes or in front of the front foot. Rocket Air - The front hand grabs the toe edge in front of the front foot (mute) and the back leg is boned while the board points perpendicular to the ground. Japan Air - The front hand grabs the toe edge in front of the front foot(mute), both knees are bent, the rear leg boned, and the board is pulled to the level of the head. Interesting... these definitions have surely changed since I was first trying to stick "mute" airs. But I think the above definition of a rocket is simply inaccurate. I've never heard a rocket defined as having the front hand anywhere on the toe edge. I thought it was front hand on the nose heel edge - double rocket was a rocket plus the back hand on nose toe edge, and cross rocket was front hand on nose toe edge, back hand on nose heel edge, arms crossing each other. I always called what I'm doing in the picture a mute. I also thought a Japan was basically a method but reaching across the top of the board to the toe edge. But no matter how you slice it.... old school airs rule. Especially when grabbed, held, and drifted over a huge gap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted August 9, 2004 Report Share Posted August 9, 2004 agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 heh. if I was ever in the air smooth, landed smooth, and had a clean grab, and someone tried to stop me and tell me what it was or wasnt, uh.... I think Id throw a snowball at them and tell them to lighten the **** up. seems to me when this **** gets on paper or has some sort of commitee to decide whats right and wrong..well...the original spirit of rebellion has certainly been hegemonized Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northcoast Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 What would you call this then? Freddy does Snoqualmie? ________ MEDICAL CANNABIS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateW Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Tweaked-out mute airs are my favorite grab ever. I can't do them in hard boots, but when I rode softies it was what I always went for. I have to mention Damian Sanders again at this point. I messed up the medial collateral ligament in my right (rear) knee by tweaking out tailfish grabs. That, and getting old. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 D-sub- That is great, have your fun. Obviously you have never judged a competition, in which case, it is rather important that you know these things. I find it important as an instructor to know these things too. Number one, if I didn't, I would lose credibility in some of my students' eyes. Number two, when training someone for a competition, it would not work well to say "Do that one where you bone this leg out and grab here and flip the board this way, then over that hip try..." For people who just want to go out and have a blast, it doesn't matter, but for those who have made this their livelihood, it probably matters more. Furthermore, for those who like to push the limits, having names for tricks helps you to know what you can and cannot do. After all, without language, there is no understanding or comprehension of what you are doing. It is like music. You must know what chords you can and cannot play (and so much more) in order to master music. No one is trying to rain on YOUR parade. Go catch air and have fun. I will continue to learn snowboarding by the book so that I can pass that info on to those who care. Oh, and the rebellion part - that has been lost since snowboarding went mainstream. The only rebellion now is .... us! The hardbooters now are the rebellion. Of course, maybe we just know the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 I wasnt talking about competition though. Im talking about how people pick apart the smallest detail in everything. It happens regularly in the "other" scene Im in (producing electronic music of the breakbeat variety) and its sad. sure, for judging a competition its necessary, but for random riders...why? and I wasnt saying that naming tricks is lame, either. Just...things like saying "tindy" with a clear level of snide condescension is wack. one point tho...you CANT do a "tindy" on a skateboard really, so maybe thats where the scorn comes from? All these moves come from skateboarding...cept misty/rodeo flips (altho I was told recently that these are being done on vert?) as for the rebellion vs mainstream...Ive been riding since 1990, which certainly doesnt make me old school but...I'll never acknowledge the mainstream factor of this. It's sad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 I hear you D-sub. If I was out on the hill I would not care what people were pulling. I am always happy to see someone go big and go clean. (unless I was with a student, at which point we may analyze the jump) So I agree with you. On this forum in August, though, I haven't ridden in months and I have nothing better to do than discuss specifics of airs. Sorry if that bothers you. By the way, I should have mentioned earlier. That is a great pic of a seatbelt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 it only bothers me when people imply that something is inferior or substandard. thats just stupid. and it WAS implied. if youre with a student, then yes...analysis is a necessity altho...I come from a time when the idea of a "coach" for learning "tricks" seemed kinda counterintuitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonerider Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Originally posted by D-Sub I wasnt talking about competition though. Im talking about how people pick apart the smallest detail in everything. (clipped out) Yes, you shouldn't try to apply competition standards to regular riders. No one is saying you should run up to someone and admonish him/her for doing a tindy air in the park. I was jokingly ribbing a Eddie posting posting a photo of someone doing a mediocre tindy as an example of a hardbooter who hand do freestyle because it's a bad example and does little to further the idea that hardbooters can do freestyle. It's like posting a photo of your friend drunk and passed out on the floor to "am-I-hot-or-not.com." I mean my friends and I use to make fun of ourselves. Each "spoof trick" was basically a variant of a mistake we made, for instance: relaxed air ("no grab") : place your hand behind you head and arch you back... can twist the board 90 in the air at the same time as well. power chord air ("rolling down the windows") - grab method and windmill your free arm like you are a rock star rocking his guitar. spastic air ("can't decide on a grab") - grab indy, mellon, and then tail. flatland rodeo ("slipping and falling over") - grab your board as you slide on the snow on your back and spin 540 and pull yourself back up onto you board while still moving. We didn't actually have names for most of these tricks, we just did them to goof around - and we didn't care if people thought we looked silly... since that was the whole point. Pro riders screw around like us... but you won't see a single tindy in the covers of Transworld... because whether you think it's stupid or not they do have standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 heh. transworld. you mean that mag that is 90% ads? you made some funny points tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quest4powder Posted August 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 <B>Free =</B> Do whatever is fun. <B>Style =</B> Wear neon at your own risk. Same with grabbing tindy. <B>Beyond reproach =</B> grab tindy wearing neon 16 feet above the lip. ________ Xtremgirl cam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 heh. Im gonna go watch critical condition again. I think damian did all of the above on a regular basis:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonerider Posted August 11, 2004 Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 Originally posted by D-Sub heh. transworld. you mean that mag that is 90% ads? you made some funny points tho Exactly... all those ads are photos of snowboarders doing aerials. Right? I didn't say Transworld had content, but it sure has a lot of freestyle aerial photos. BTW, I looked it up... apparently way back when Damian Sanders did it, it was called an "Iguana Air" and Damian Sanders made it famous, but now the tindy has fallen out of favor - just like neon one-pieces suits (retro revivial nonewithstanding). That's just the way the snowboarding world is today - you're already a rebel just by still being a hardbooter - not like any of us (should) care if the kids today think whether we look cool or stylish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted August 11, 2004 Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 Iguana air. thats dope! funny that hardbooting is the "rebel" thing now. In all honesty it seems kinda...well...almost stuffy sometimes:) I mean...we're all gettin older...a lot less prone to acts of the r word... I dunno anyway, yeah...I guess it really doesnt matter. just dont like seein hints of condescension or derision Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skully Posted August 11, 2004 Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 Originally posted by lonerider BTW, I looked it up... apparently way back when Damian Sanders did it, it was called an "Iguana Air" and Damian Sanders made it famous, but now the tindy has fallen out of favor - just like neon one-pieces suits (retro revivial nonewithstanding)[/b] Actually, the "Iguana Air" was a back flip with the tindy grab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonerider Posted August 11, 2004 Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 Originally posted by Skully Actually, the "Iguana Air" was a back flip with the tindy grab. Where did you learn that from? (i.e. did you just hear it once, or did something explicitly tell your that an iguana air is a backflip tindy) Every reference I've found on the web has no mention of a backflip in it. It would breaks the general naming scheme of tricks. An "air" is always a straight air trick (usually a grab), if there is a spin or flip, the trick isn't called an air (except air to fakie). But I'm only using what I found on the web, all the references ( twsnow, expn, xgames, boardzone, ssx ;) ) could be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted August 11, 2004 Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 Iguana air is the laid-out back flip with the grab, I've read/heard Damian call it that a few times. Or maybe he called it an Iguana back flip. Anyways, Iguana was definitely in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonerider Posted August 11, 2004 Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 Originally posted by Neil Gendzwill Iguana air is the laid-out back flip with the grab, I've read/heard Damian call it that a few times. Or maybe he called it an Iguana back flip. Anyways, Iguana was definitely in there. An iguana backflip would seem to follow the naming style, like say 360 mellon, but these terms aren't locked in stone anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skully Posted August 11, 2004 Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 Originally posted by lonerider Where did you learn that from? (i.e. did you just hear it once, or did something explicitly tell your that an iguana air is a backflip tindy) I learnt it from the man himself.... I don't ever remember seeing a reference to an "Iguana Air." Howver, I do remember Damian refering to Iguana backflips, seen hundreds of photos of him refering to Iguana backflips, and seen him do them hundreds of times in the old videos..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quest4powder Posted August 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 ...for posting the pic of D. Sanders throwing the backflip. It was awesome then; it's still awesome now! ________ Live sex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonerider Posted August 11, 2004 Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 Originally posted by quest4powder ...for posting the pic of D. Sanders throwing the backflip. It was awesome then; it's still awesome now! Yea, there's a good example where you won't have anyone bothering you about grabbing tindy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skully Posted August 11, 2004 Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 The cool thing about the old freestylers like Damian is they didn't have to ride a 150 to be able to spin, etc. Damian always road a 175 and didn't have any problem spinning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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