newcarver Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 I'm currently waiting on some parts to fix my HB's so I've been stuck carving on my softboot set up. Was wondering if there are any things that need to be done differently in technique between the 2? I've been having fun with the softboot set up. Here is the setup: Osin 3800 163 with Sims/Link Lithium bindings (metal base with ridgid high back) and Deelux boots (pretty stiff free ride boots). Angles at 32 and 20 with my size 26.5 boots to get them at the edges. Have been applying the same techniques as with my hard set up which has been working fine. Just didn't know if there some things that I should maybe do differently since the angles aren't as steep and the setup is softer? One thing that I've been finding is that I constantly have to tighten screws on the bindings. Seems that carving puts a lot of stress on them or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave ESPI Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 blue loctite is your friend ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCrimson Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Vibratite. Spensive, but worth it. Brush it on, let it dry, screw your bindings in. Loctite has solvents...self explanatory why it's bad. Gotta be careful when you just grab loctite off the shelf. There's lots of different kinds of loctite, not just indicated by their color, I learned that one the hard way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjulezD Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Hey I just had the same experience, except that my HB setup was ready on saturday for me to try it out. It had been six or seven years I didn't use a hard setup and the first run was a little hectic, but it came back like riding a bike. I did two runs at the end of the day on my freeride board with softies, so here are my fresh impressions: - soft setup: Pros: the touch and feel on the snow remain incredible, just as the lightness under your feet, you can ride and carve with any angle Cons: you can't hold an edge with the same strength as you would do with a hb setup, so your carving would be limited to easy terrain and moderate speed. You can't go for EC carving with a soft setup. The flex of the board (mine is a nitro pantera 163=on the stiff side) doesn't allow very aggressive, laid down turns, but more important, the soft boots won't help you at all to lift up your body after such a turn. Riding at high angles won't help also, on the contrary. - hard setup: you loose in lightness and versatility, but you have an incomparable strength under you feet. It's more about surfing with your body and the board coming as one. True for carving, but also to ride steep slopes with bumps. No problem to jump directly in your carving turn with a hb setup. So, in short, softies can carve good, if you have good conditions and at medium to fairly high speed. If you are more attracted by the feel on the snow and all-mountain use, then softies win. Especially if you have no gear or can't afford a big quiver. For a quiver of one, a good all-mountain/freeride board will do it. But carving on HB is really exhilarating, with more feeling of strength and speed. All this of course is my humble opinion to an ongoing question. Note that one of my best snowboard rides on anything else than pow are with a F2 eliminator and clicker setup. Too bad this line of research was not continued... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUD Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 The only thing I could point out is when I carve soft boots I don't tend to have my shoulders as perpendicular to the board as I do with my hard boots. I don't know if this is because of lower angles (hard = 57/54, soft = 30/10 or so) or the fact that when I carve in softies I know it is a less positive carve, there fore I tend to carve more surfy and just let the board do the work..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcarver Posted January 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Found out the hard way about having less edge hold with softies. Was carving at a good clip on moderately steep hardpack with some chop. Hit bump and lost edge, resulting in high speed slide then nose caught and flipped me on my shoulder and chest. Still hurting 3 weeks later. Softies do work well on nice cord. Also nice to ride since we have had powder days every week and I can carve the groomers while surfing the powder all on the same stick. Can't wait to get back on my SG with the hardboot though:1luvu: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjulezD Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 MUD, that was my point about high angles not helping to carve better on softies. Actually, what I forgot to add in the pros for carving on softies is precisely this: because of the lower angles, you have a more natural position. Too bad the softness of the setup does not allow for a better grip and more agressive riding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUD Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Sorry to differ, but a skilled rider can most certainly effectively and aggressively carve a softboot setup on steep, icy, uneven terrain. The statement "so your carving would be limited to easy terrain and moderate speed" is most definately not an accurate one. I VERY much agree with Mr. Orecchio on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjulezD Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 Originally Posted by S.Orecchio Sorry to differ, but a skilled rider can most certainly effectively and aggressively carve a softboot setup on steep, icy, uneven terrain. The statement "so your carving would be limited to easy terrain and moderate speed" is most definately not an accurate one. Mr Orecchio, I was just referring to my recent experience of trying out hard and soft setups on the same terrain, situation where riders' skill (mine) doesn't vary. Carving on steep and uneven terrain in a soft setup is possible. I still argue though that a hard setup will provide more grip and allow for more speed/radical turns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 drive with your knees more aggressively and steer with your hands ( roll your hands into the mountain on each turn keeping them well out in front of you) if your front knee and your hands are aggressively driving into the mountain the edge will hold. In extreme circumstances I have found that I can hold a heelside by really pushing my hands out over the nose. angles are vital. your heels and toes should be as close to the edge as you can get without dragging them. on narrower boards you will find that they may be greater than your hardboot angles due to the width of soft boots and bindings. 45 is the toughest angle higher or lower is easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowboardfast Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Don't try to overpower your boots and bindings when riding soft boots. It is possible to fold your boots and really hurt your feet when riding in soft boots. Save the extra power when riding hardboots.I had this problem when going back to soft boots a few years ago. My feet were really hurting because I was trying to push way too hard on hard snow. This year I bought a pair of Catek freeride pro bindings which have been working great as they are stiffer but I have to still make sure I don't over do it. When I ride soft boots I like to spend most of my time on ungroomed snow as I am looking for softer snow to ride as it is more fun for me. I only ride hardboots on groomed snow only and if the groomers are really soft I switch to soft boots. This is after doing h/b exclusively for many years. I just like the variety and have more fun riding each setup by doing this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtslalom Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 I am also a firm believer, as mentioned above by S. Orecchio, that anyone with good technical carving skills can carve just about anything on any conditions and slope. I have seen soft boot carvers carve through incredibly hard icy conditions on diamond slopes where even some hard booters fail. Don't believe that you are restricted by your soft board to ride easy groomers. Its more dependant on ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingbat Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 It is possible to fold your boots and really hurt your feet when riding in soft boots. That's funny. It was my ribs and shoulder that hurt the one time I folded my soft boots mid turn. I wonder what I did wrong?;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 you both need new boots. I am 285 Lbs and I have never "folded" a soft boot. I have broken them down over time to a point that no longer supports carving but its not an event. Get better boots:biggthump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingbat Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 I am 285 Lbs and I have never "folded" a soft boot. I have broken them down over time to a point that no longer supports carving but its not an event. Get better boots:biggthump I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you've never riden your soft boots on a 180cm GS board like I did when I was first trying out alpine. It's a memory I'm still trying to repress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhD Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 I'm real pleased with my Venture Zephyr 171 Wide, Burton Ruler boots and Mission bindings. Really damp and stable board, and supportive boot/binding combo. Not quite as stout as my Prior ATV 171 with TD2/Head Pros on real hard stuff, but more versatile for powder. Both setups work great for deep carves - getting close to a full 360 on toeside. Both boards are remarkably nimble in bumps if I ride agressively on the nose and both are perfectly happy making quick "wedel" lines. The only thing I'd change on the Zephyr is to sand and give the topsheet a gloss finish so it would shed snow better. I ride the Zephyr in a slightly duck stance, with about +18 deg forward and -6 aft. The Prior is more like 57/45 with 6 deg. cants. The snowpack is setting up this week in the NW, so I'm looking forward to some real nice conditions this weekend. The deep powder has been fun, but it'll be nice to get my edges into something solid for a few days. Looking forward to a week in Sun Valley, the Mt. Baker LBS, a week at Whistler, and of course the OES! Hope to see some of you out there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeho730 Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 I can confirm that it is possible to do toe side EC turn with soft boot setup... with ATV and FR2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you've never riden your soft boots on a 180cm GS board like I did when I was first trying out alpine. It's a memory I'm still trying to repress. Well I haven't ridden a 180 Gs board in softies But I have ridden a 185 GS board in softies with catek freerides. It worked well on soft groom and didn't work on ice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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