Guest becca Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 Wow! So Bomber Online decided to go ahead and get with the current administration -- one more blow to freedom of speech, and all in the name of keeping this a family site. Give me a break. If Bomber Online is so concerned about this issue why not get rid of the entire Eye Candy thread? Or is degrading women an acceptable family value? Likewise, have you noticed that some users’ avatars are distasteful too? Evidently Bomber has no qualms with sanctioning the gruesome. I’m a firm believer in freedom of expression and speech, so don’t interpret this as a call for further censorship, I’m just pointing out the irregularities in your offensive against the offensive. CMC’s posts (yes I've been paying enough attention that I caught most of the now deleted exchanges, and he was not the only one getting personal) were often opinionated, arrogant, obnoxious and offensive. But this makes him different from some other users how? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Dahl Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 Now for a personal observation. Something that seems to have been forgotten about freedom of speech; with great freedom comes great responsibility. Take a minute and truly let that soak in. When I speek freely, I am also responsible to consider the consequences of what I am saying. That goes for ALL that I say or do. If we were dealing with the great issues of our time, perhaps we could make an issue of censorship here, but we are talking snowboarding here! We also enter here and agree, by using this site, to abide by rules. I want to be able to send ANYONE I know here and not have them offended by lewdness or profanity. Anyone can make a point without those items entering into the conversation, and make their point better. Look at the great orators of our country, those who made freedom possible. Mostly they were literate and w/o profanity. Think we can learn something??? Also, if you never say anything you should be ashamed of, you'll never be ashamed of what you say! And I post with my real name because it keeps me accountable, something we all should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest becca Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 Jon, Thanks for the welcome. I agree with you: with great freedom comes great responsibility, hence the reason for my post. It seems in your hurry to lecture me on Freedom of Speech you missed my point. I'm not defending the use of profanity, I'm pointing out that if Bomber is claiming to be a "family site" and taking on the task of responsible censorship (presuming such a concept exists) then the standards should apply to everyone. Censorship as a tool to quiet voices of dissent is something that deserves attention--even when it's only regarding snowboards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 It's not censorship. It's a privately run forum, the owners are free to moderate as they please. CMC is perfectly free to pay the money to set up his own servers, buy a domain name and publish whatever he likes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 right..but the point is...becca's point at least: ever heard of even handedness? the claims are made that this is a "family" site and yet..as becca pointed out...theres the thread about hooters...etc etc... its pretty darn clear that CMC is disliked by a few around here, and while he definitely comes off as a total jerk sometimes...the "this is a family site" excuse doesnt fly in face of other threads that are left untouched. perhaps bomber needs a "badlands" forum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Dahl Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 that the spirit of the rules and guidlines for this forum may very well be violated both by some of the threads, and by a few of the avatars. If you feel that is the case, as a member of this forum, you can report those things to one of the moderators, and see what becomes of it. Don't make me feel like the lone ranger here, please! Does responsible censorship exist? I believe so, otherwise society could not exist. Courtesy and deference really are the oil of society. The spirit that it is done in makes a huge difference in how it is recieved. I hold very strong beliefs and opinions, but I feel that all should be able to speak freely. Attacking a person or his beliefs/convictions is not exercising freedom of speech, just bullying. 'Nuff said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 john Im sorry but did you read becca's posts? She's correct in saying that you pulled a hair-trigger move in lecturing her on "freedom" she's actually sorta arguing _against_ "censorship" because the moderating that is in place seems a bit lopsided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Dahl Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 read her posts, and I do agree with a good deal of what she has said. That said, freedom of speech is a VERY large subject, and application of it is somewhat complicated. For a moderator to delete certain things because of content not being in line with the rules is proper and good, and in line with the spirit of the fourth amendment, i.e. a mans home is his castle. Fin has graciously provided server space (home) and rules apply. becca brought politics into this, in reference to the current admin. and its policies, and well beyond the proper scope of this forum. However, a careful study of the environment that formed the first ten amendments would certainly change our views on them. Again, 'nuff said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 I was hoping Fin would jump in here, but before this thread spirals into out of control speculation, I would like to offer the following. After the recent incidents, Fin, Bob and I emailed about just what kind of a "family site" this is. We agreed that the atmosphere here should be regarded the same as a bar/restaurant at a ski resort during apres-ski hours. That is, the clientele is primarily adult, but minors are allowed. Adult conversations and language will be used within reasonable limits. The belligerent drunk standing on the chair shouting and waving a pitcher of beer will either be asked to calm down or be ejected. In a nutshell, this site is PG-13. The actions taken against cmc were not due entirely to an isolated incident. He has repeatedly flaunted and broken the established guidelines and has been warned several times. He has been given <i>many</i> opportunities to be a positive contributor to this private community. Nobody is glad that it has come to this. Speaking for myself, I am especially disappointed because I actually like the guy in person. However I have seen the way he treats other people I like and respect, and I can no longer ignore that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 well said, Jack heh...I kinda like the drunks that stand on the barstools tho ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirror70 Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 Looks like I missed some fun threads :) John - your comment about using a real name and accountability is dead-on. When I used to operate a couple of forums on CompuServe, everybody was vastly more civil when required to post using their real names. The difference was night and day. The anonymity of the internet brings out the belligerent arse-hole in everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fin Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 Sorry for the delay, I have been riveted to the recent stage of the Tour De France. Is anyone else watching the tour? Becca, As the other guys mentioned, huge welcome to the site and your input is always appreciated. However, I would suggest asking a few questions and getting some facts before making broad statements about Bomber like “one more blow to freedom of speech”. Are you sure you know all the facts? Here is the scoop: the current banning of a member here at BOL has little to do with censorship. Yes, this member has pushed the limits of what is deemed appropriate but over-all has been accepted and tolerated. This member was banned recently for specifically breaking forum rules, posing under false names for malicious intent, posting under names to impersonate other members (including moderators), and other various “not so cool” actions on their part directed personally at BOL members, administrators, and owners. Believe me when I tell you, unless you are on BOL 24 hours a day and refreshing on the minute you only see a small percent of what this person does. Now as far as censorship goes you will not meet a bigger advocate for free speach (edit: thanks D-Sub :p ) then myself. And my goal with the BOL forum was to allow this to its fullest extent. If you ask the other moderators here you will find I am usually the guy who says “let it roll”. However, as the years have gone by I have come to realize that in order to have a functional, effective, and ongoing conversation; you have to tell someone to behave now and then. Jack’s analogy of the BOL Forum being a tavern is dead on. The owner of this tavern has to make sure that everyone has a good time and are allowed to talk about what they like. But at the same time making sure someone does not cross the line, act like an idiot, and cause people to leave the tavern. Left unchecked, you have an empty tavern with one drunken guy screaming at the top of his lungs (and maybe Jack in the corner arguing about centrifugal force, but that is another matter). Some days this line is easy to see other times not so clear. That being said let me inform you to a few other facts. For the first 4 years of BOL forum I deleted maybe 1 or 2 threads and no one was banned. In the past year we have deleted maybe half dozen threads (after MUCH debate among the admins) and banned one user for 24 hrs until they cooled down. One other interesting fact is all the above actions where the result of 2 to 3 individuals out of the 1118 registered members we currently have. So if you have visions of me and the other administrators slashing and burning threads every day and banning users we just don’t like, you are mistaken. Also, we do rely on members letting us know when there is a thread that they do not like or find offensive. Not to say we will immediately delete that thread but if we get 20+ users stating this then you bet, we’ll take a good hard look at it. Hope this takes care of you concerns with where we stand here at Bomber. We totally look forward to more of your participation and if you have any questions or issues just e-mail myself or the other admins here and we’ll take care of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 Now as far as censorship goes you will not meet a bigger advocate for it then myself. heh. I love it when typos work out so ironically beautiful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fin Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 Derrrrrrr.......:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekre8r Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 As a mostly silent member of the bomberonline "family" I agree with fin. Privately owned and privately controlled, his site, his decision and IMHO extremely well run. Sometimes the posts go in directions that make me wonder but I feel that the moderators do an excellent job of keeping us all on track. Sometime I hope to carve turns w/ Jack as his posts almost alway make me think. Hey it's a private forum for us all to enjoy and when someone does not want to play by the rules vote them off the island. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baka Dasai Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 I'm sure "Becca" is sitting back having a good laugh about this thread. "She" has really sucked you guys right in. Has it occurred to the moderators just how impossible it is to ban somebody from the site? New email addresses are virtually unlimited, and an IP ban is ineffective as the IP address can be masked by a proxy. Originally posted by swt The latest little fracas on BOL seems to have established an undeniable link between snowboarding and academia. <i>University politics are vicious precisely because the stakes are so small.</i> -- Henry Kissinger Same politics. Same stakes. You got it. It's all a storm in a teacup. I feel stupid for posting this and thereby adding to the whole thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Originally posted by Baka Dasai I'm sure "Becca" is sitting back having a good laugh about this thread. "She" has really sucked you guys right in. I have emailed with Becca personally, and I would be extremely surprised if she is not genuine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest becca Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Regarding the sudden concern about real names, mine is in fact Becca, generally short for Rebecca. As for my gender, given BOL's family, I mean pub, atmosphere I won't post the pics that would categorically prove that I am in fact a "she." (We did have fun taking them though!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ghostrider Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 um..hi, My name is Bill Hartman. I'm addicted to snowboarding. I've been a rider for 9 years. It's been 4 months since I last carved a turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirror70 Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 As for my gender, given BOL's family, I mean pub, atmosphere I won't post the pics that would categorically prove that I am in fact a "she." (We did have fun taking them though!) Given the pub atmosphere, I could post some pics that would categorically confuse whether or not I am in fact a "she." Then again, Jack did seem to say that we should all avoid being the drunk guy with the pitcher :) It was a fun night though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terror Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 gone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aisling Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Originally posted by terror BOL just isn't fun anymore. Okay, CMC broke the rules, but BJ isn't very much fun either. There used to be some interesting discussions at this place, but no more. Posturing and bad advice, and now, this whole "family site" thing. It seems to me like Bobs' pissed at CMC, and so the whole thing is gone, and CMC. I used to read this just for Maciek, CMC, and CF. Maciek always had a different take on things(I'm being polite), CMC used to give great advice, but I think he got sick of the posturing(can't speak for ya man, just my take on it), and CF. I've defended that guy publically. He had great points, he made me think, and he liked Irish whiskey. Helluva guy in my book. Anyway, I agree with what Becca is saying. I know, CMC broke the rules, but they're are some questionable avatars, and the conversation is sometimes filled with inuendo(Aisling and Marilyn Cambers). So, what's this about? Censorship? BJ v. CMC? Decency? I might reply to stuff in this thread, but I'll probably just keep lurking, ya know, for deals and such............. uh, yeah... cause WOMEN are the only ones on here who post with innuendo. give me a break. i like irish whiskey too, am i a better person now? :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terror Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 [gone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ghostrider Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 HA HA! The next thread to be censored is the thread ABOUT censorship... oh man..thats sweet.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aisling Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 wow. family values strike again. are you trying to cause a commotion here for some reason? i thought part of the point of this conversation was that personal attacks aren't necessary on here. if this is a pub, consider yourself slapped for not only your verbal ineptitude, but your rude behaviour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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