alpine snowboarding industry today

[jason_watkins]

So, just calling things how I see them:

I think freestyle snowboarding is going to be surpassed by freesking. Physics are on the skier's side: they're going faster, bigger and spin more. They have more freedom to move their body in the air to stall or change direction. Imagine the sorts of things high divers can do in the air. Not that freestyle snowboarding won't remain popular... but once it's surpassed in technical level by skiing, there may be an oppertunity for the snowboarding market fashion to grow beyond freestyle.

Snowboarding is also very young... as riders get older, I think they might become more receptive to alpine equipment. And I also expect more senier skiiers to convert as knee problems make them look toward a single plank.

I've been slow to convert over to hardboots. And I think that's typical for someone in my age bracket. No one wants to be the kook on the hill, especially among those 25 or younger. As long as the stores and media focus exclusively on freestyle, there's a fairly large portion of freeriding snowboarders that might like hardboots, but will never look at it as more than a curiosity.

Actually, my more hardcore freestyle friends *get* hardboots. They understand what a carved turn is all about, and they can see what the advantages to hardboots might be, even if it's not what they're interested in. What happens when these kids start getting older,, and have broken themselves enough that they don't want to be hitting 60 foot tables anymore?

I also think the equipment is going to continue to evolve. Softboots have been getting harder, ski boots softer. At some point, there's going to be a good, stiff and secure step in boot that bridges the two worlds. Some riders who try that might find they like hardboots

Who knows, but myself, I see a lot of oppertunity for hardboot snowboarding in the future, especially if it gains some media exposure. It's not likely to happen from boardercross though. Wide courses with lots of jumps, lots of room for passing make for better spectating so I expect softboots to be dominate there in the future.

[Jack M]

I do have to believe that alpine snowboarding will see slow growth as snowboarders age and mature out of the terrain parks/pipes. Fin always tells me he sells more bindings each year, I don't know if he'd want to post stats.

I don't see the sport of snowboarding in general losing any ground to skiing as Jason says, since I think many people are just built to slide sideways.

Watching the olympics I did see many F2 boards as well as Burton. And that lone wolf on a Kessler!

Was that short enough Strider?

[Strider]

Dang it Jack..I expected more insight( and more post) than that. I actually enjoy reading your views on the sport and the technical tips...I was just poking fun at the length because my freinds are always telling me that I tell them too much and think too much about it. ;)

[Guest Ghostrider]

My personal view is that one major aspect that our sport is lacking in order to break into that mainstream scene is that it needs a poster child.

Also, it needs to gain appeal to that freestyle crowd, to do that, you cant just have a bunch of sponsors that appeal to the "typical demographic" of "technically proficent, affluent rider who has the time, finances and ability to spend a lot of time on the hill"...you need sponsors that appeal to the children of those people.

The closest thing to a poster child I can think of is Klug and I dont mean to disrespect him in any way but you'll notice that his sponsors are targeted exactly at that demographic. Which is great, but that means that only people who are involved in the sport will know about klug. This does nothing to grow the sport or appeal to people outside of the sport even if they do see him.

If there was even just one person who represented snowboard racing and went out there with proper sponsorship that allowed access into that other freestyle demographic, the sport would see enormous gains. And by proper sponsorship, I dont even mean board or boot or binding sponsors. Much of snowboarding is a fashion industry. All it could take is a snowboard racer to put on a Element trucker hat, Von Zipper glasses, Quiksilver hooded sweatshirt, Volcom pants with the studded belt and Etnies shoes. Once they are all dressed up in proper attire, head to the half pipe for finals of a televised event and just stand around and party.

Hardbooting isnt stuck in the shadow of freestyle, it just needs a young person to say 'hey...this game ain't just your dads hobby anymore'

[Jack M]

Sorry Strider, but there was some good insight already posted (and I knew you were kidding).

As Ghostrider says, we don't really have a poster child in the US. Klug is as close as we get, but he'd have to be killing it Bode Miller style in order to get more media attention. Jasey Jay is killing it, but being Canadian doesn't really influence the media down here. Klug also doesn't portray any "image" other than a clean-cut nice-guy racer and underdog-horrible-illness-survivor, both of which are just fine for racing.

Basically, we would need a new P&J. That's Peter and Jean - yeah Patrice and Jacques are giving alpine some cool exposure but it's certainly not as mainstream as Bauer and Nerva were.

Let's face it, in order for alpine to be "cool", it would take some major manufacturer or magazine to come out and tell the masses "this is cool, worship it". You know Burton is out (how ironic that they pulled out right on the cusp of the "online alpine revolution" - when they could have done something with it). But I don't think that's our goal.

[Mike Tokar]

I hope Cindy's not disappointed by her thread going off on a tangent, but it's still kind of on the topic of the future of the industry.

It seems as though the marketers and advertisers in and out of the industry already think alpine is cool, not because of the racing angle, but because of the edge angle. There is probably a larger percentage of pictures of alpine riders laying out carves on brochures (vs. pics of freestylers) than on the slopes. It looks cool, it looks like fun, and it will make some people think "I want to do that".

I see 2 types of people that would enjoy alpine equipment, or maybe 2 aspects of alpine that anyone into snowboarding would enjoy: the carving/surfing aspect and the speed rush.

to some, I'd sell the fun and free-riding aspects of alpine rather than techno-jargon and racing discipline. Snowboarding is supposed to be fun, not work. I think a lot of people convert to snowboarding to surf the hill, and start with the most inexpensive and comfortable set ups they can get. As the soft boots get stiffer for freeriding, the hardboots get softer for the same reason, and the snowboard population ages its' way out of the terrain parks and turn to carving, there should be some point of convergance that creates a greater demand for alpine equipment for the fun of it.

(Obviously, you don't HAVE to have an alpine set up to carve the slopes, but it makes it a lot easier and a lot more fun.)

All the carving fun aside, the other thing that's cool about alpine is the speed. Going fast is fun. The clock doesn't lie. Races are definitive. Alpine gear is the fastest stuff. By that rationale, alpine gear is the funnest stuff. (To the speed freaks of the world)

Regarding Cindy's question about racing: Boardercross and PGS events have a clear winner, not some subjective BS like figure skating and half-pipe. I still can't believe that there aren't any races in the US Open anymore. The Winter X games should have a pure downhill event. Just a big hill, no gates and some FAST riding. We all need a venue to bring out the big boards!!!

Sorry for the long rant,

MT

[utahcarver]

Mike,

Sorry to bump this thead up but, Mike, you have single-handedly just solved the Winter-X Games promotional and Nielsen ratings problems by suggesting a snowboard downhill race. Though I'm serious about what you've suggested, I can' help but think of what a fiasco Big Cable would make of this new addition to 'extreme' sports. As a kid, I remember watching Evel Knievel on ABC Wide World Of Sports, and the ski jumper who's fall is inexorably linked with Jim McKay's saying, "...and the agony of defeat." What links all this together is the chance that some competitor is gonna eat it BIG TIME. Remember EK pounding hisself into the ground in Las Vegas?

THAT, my friend, is gonna bring out the stir-crazy NASCAR/NHRA crowd in the winter. Put a STRAIGHTLINE down a pitch, say in Les Arcs, France? Or, how about the old downhill speed lane in Silverton, Colorado? Have Steve Mckinney host it, too.

This, this would save the Extreme TV industry from sure destruction! Ohh, and just think of the new sponsorships: "Now, leaving the starthouse on the number 17 Stay-Free/Bush's Baked Beans/LL Bean Donek 419cm is Stu Pidbutt, trying to reclaim his title from 9 years ago when a tragic crash on this same hill took all his limbs. His body is now hooked to the board by a new TorsoDigger2 (TD2) binding by Bomber Industries of Colorado."

Bottom line: if you want the sport of carving/hardbooting that we all love and enjoy so much to continue to grow and mature, please keep the Big Money out of it. Let the carving community grow at a natural pace.

What do you think ESPM or Mount-N-Doo would do to alpine boarding? Glamourize it or kill it?

OK, I'll put my cynism to bed now.

Mark

[NateW]

Right on, Mark. You crack me up. :D