[technique] Slarving

[kjl]

Hey, Rob Stevens, you have mentioned in the past, and now just recently in the internet disaster that is the Tinkler thread, the technique you call slarving, or high performance skid turns.

I think it is time in my hardbooting career to learn it. Rarely, I've seen good skiers do it on steep slopes that are just a little too narrow or chunk for full speed railing, making beautiful C-turns back and forth across the hill, but leaving a fat track the snow because their skis are always ~10-15 degrees ahead of their turn, and, more importantly, having much better speed control than just railing the turn. But as far as I can remember, I've never seen any carvers (e.g. at the SES) do it.

I find it frustrating that I can rail my turns up to a certain difficulty of terrain, and then after that I basically end up doing low-performance skid turns (i.e. kicking the tail back and forth while just traveling straight down the fall line) like a beginner.

The slarving skiers I have seen do a very beautiful turn - they are skidding, but it looks like 4-wheel drift turns in cars - very controlled, very smooth, and still making a big arced turn.

So.. how do I start?

I have tried in the past, and I usually end up with one of the following:

1) skidding down the fall line instead of in a direction just behind the direction of the board.

2) having the edge all of a sudden grab and then take me into a railed carve.

3) getting the "chunk" - edge grabs in and stops, then releases, then grabs, then releases, etc., resulting in teeth-rattling chatter and a track that looks like stacks of horizontal lines.

I think I can do it in softies on toesides, because I have the calf/ankle to feather the edge response, and the fore-aft weighting is much easier in softies by just shifting at the ankles.

Thanks, (and thanks for all the technique help with the heelside turns 2-3 years ago.)

[tpalka]

Hey Ken -- would B2's post about Theddo Remmelink's training camp be relevant? Not sure if I'm visualizing what you're asking correctly... and very interested in the next replies! Cheers,

tom.

[Rob Stevens]

The slarve turn is a carved turn with a little less edge angle and a better sense of pressure control.

Kjl. Those turns you're describing yourself doing on narrow, steeper bumped-out terrain are happening under the front foot and forward. The tail has to travel a long distance sideways to create any steering angle, to get your board pointed where you want it to go. That's a big, awkward move to make.

To make the movements smaller and easier to perform, you need to know how to move the pivot point of you slide rearward of that. If you pivot your slide at the centre, the tail is still moving out, but the nose is also moving up. Beyond that, you can move the pivot farther back still, like right to the end of the tail and really pull the nose up to a higher line. This cuts off the radius of the turn, bringing you around fast. Much faster and with a way narrower track than front pivoting.

The sliding edge holds less pressure than a carved edge, so you need to start this turn really early, spreading out the force the whole way around.

Go to a narrow, steep line. Traverse in and start the first turn with a good pop off the tail. Jump up hill to a nice, high line and try to land on the nose about halfway to the front foot. With less edge you'll be sliding, so just make sure that slide is drifting at the centre of your edge. Let the front foot come up with passive pressure from the snow, or pull it up actively. Push the back end out, overpowering the snow's pressure and as you do that, feel the pivot point move along the edge to the tail.

If you did that right, you'll have done half of the turn, controlling and dissipating a decent amount of pressure, before your nose was even pointed to the fall line.

OK... So alot of this is carving advice, too. The big thing is just to keep going back into terrain that pisses you off and when you turn, try to show your base up the hill when you start the turn and slacken off the edge angle.

As far as what the rest of you is doing, I wouldn't worry about it. Your posture through the turn is good as it is, from the looks of things.

[Rob Stevens]

Oh yeah... Thedos centre pivot is worth watching.

[Fastskiguy]

The slarve turn is a carved turn with a little less edge angle and a better sense of pressure control.

I've heard of the "Brushed Carve", the Skarve, the Skidded Carve, or in the old days before shaped skis simply..."Carve" but never the "Slarve", where'd the "L" come from?

But Rob summarized it perfectly in one sentence!

[Rob Stevens]

Slarve.

[Kimo]

Shouldn't it be Carvding because it starts with a carve and ends with a slide?

[kjl]

Thanks, Rob - I had not, nor would I ever have thought to pivot around anything but the nose. That will definitely take some practice - whenever I skid on purpose, especially on a carving board, I deliberately put my weight on the nose so I can swing the tail around.

When I am "easing off the edge angle", am I easing off of angulation, too, or just not learning over as far?

[chewy]

a controlled slid turn is never carved so it should be slid

but

because most rider have no technique and slide all around, a well executed sliding turn can be a slarve

[BadBrad]

I have found the key to high performance skidded turns is to avoid counter-rotation. Keep your shoulders aligned with the front of the board or with your bindings, and you are likely to make smooth skidded arcs rather than Z-shaped skids.

[Bobby Buggs]

I think what you are talking about is what I did for years before I realized what a sidecut really did. I called it Power skidding, using hard boots and directional free ride boards. Coming from a ski background and not having any other snowboarders in my crew it was the only way to survive. The guy that turned me on to it used to do bumps on a board in hard boots better than most skiers.

[Rob Stevens]

When I am "easing off the edge angle", am I easing off of angulation, too, or just not learning over as far?

In hardboots, you might have to stand a little taller. If you can't planar / dorsiflex your foot at the ankle, like in softboots, that "slackening" has to be moved up to the next joints in line.

Sliding is definitely easier in softboots. That's probably why most here like to rock the hard. I guess this is dependant on how stiff your softboots are, or how soft your hardboots are.

If you stay in the narrow corridor and focus on an early edge change, well before the fall line, the amout of edge you wind up using will reveal itself.

[DEON]

Slarve.

I train with thedo, the technique has been named a lot of things the one that stuck with me was "drift and lock" like he said you slide your start keeping the board in the fall line with low board angle, staying a little tall, then you sink using your hils and knees getting more board angle locking into the turn

[Zone]

Thanks for bringing this topic up. I was wondering myself how to practice for this outside of ruts and race course. I saw ArcRider made a most beautiful slarve during a race last year in a icy steep section to catch the next gate, it was almost a 90 degree one with in the air transition. Most impressive. The video link was very helpful.

It will be a lot of more 'drift and lock' around here. Learning is good!

[Bobby Buggs]

Just watched the vid, I call that free ride carving and we usually do that all spring with a few fakie turns thrown in for fun. When we ride like that I usually equate that to a Non "performing" day. Its all about fun and no technical turning, getting "low" is not important on those days:1luvu:

[kjl]

Thanks, Rob. I'll give it a shot over New Year's, weather permitting.

I'm surprised that some of you think that slarving is easier than carving, and it makes me wonder if 1) I just suck or 2) we are talking about two different things or 3) people's skill sets are just wildly different. The slarving that I am aiming for would be equivalent to a perfectly controlled 4 wheel drift turn. It is easy to turn a car normally, but the ability to deliberately skid the tires and navigate a turn while feathering the speed, turning rate of the car, and radius of the path of the car without spinning out or regaining full traction is some weird zen thing.

Similarly, I think purely carving is "simple". I don't mean it's easy, but I think basically it all boils down to: if you angulate as much as possible and lean over, your edge will lock in and you will carve. There's a lot of technique advice on here about where to stick your hand and where to drive your knees and your hips, but I think all of that is simply in service of maximizing your angulation (I'm simplifying of course; there's a lot of push-pulling you can do or olliing off the tail onto your nose to get the edge to bite, etc.). ...but smoothly feathering your edge angle and fore-aft weighting and carefully controlling your body rotation so you smoothly drift-slide around a 10' or 15' radius arc is something hugely challenging for me.

[Kimo]

Ken, I've seen you ride. You definitely don't suck.

[b0ardski]

the 4 wheel drift turn is a great anology.

I ride wider all mt. boards most of the time (I love switch). Whenever the edge of the board is not "locked in" this is happening to some degree. Learning to control it gives you the ability to ride any condition/terrain with fearless impunity.

I think "feathering" a carved turn is the most accurate term to describe it.

It is harder to pull off on a narrow stiff alpine board.

[Bobby Buggs]

Im with you on the AM rides, its really all I ride because it allows max versatility in your riding style.

When I look at the vid that Tom posted it reminds me of how my wife rides, I try to get her to decrease that skidding transition but now that I look at it Im glad she can do that.

[Hotbeans]

Huh. I love doing this coming across the fall line faasst as I begin my transition into the next line. I've found it comes naturally when my balance is centered well-- a tad to the front for course corrections, drop to the rear for edge hold/acceleration. My issue occasionally is that I'll get caught "in the back seat" and rocket off towards the tree line.