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Ultimate powder board


Jon Dahl
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Ultimate powder board  

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  1. 1. Ultimate powder board

    • Go big, ride a Tanker!
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    • Banana Hammock..??
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    • Burton Fish
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    • Shutup and riide, man!
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Gonna revive this long abandoned but awesome thread by saying that i am gonna test my newly acquired moss pq60 against swellpanik magistral 186 that i've been riding for ages! The nose length of the pq60 is roughly the same as my magistral which is awesome but much shorter tail length! I am sure it will be great in trees but i the real test will be in open fields aka heli-sku scenario

Edited by Karen
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Howzit Karen

Thanks for reviving this thread

I noticed on another Euro forum you also have ridden a Dupraz.  Which revives an ongoing discussion of "surfy".  You said you thought the Dupraz was not as "surfy" as the Magistral.  Of course there are so many types of waves and boards...  I have been communicating with Kafi regarding a Swellpanik Magistral, which has been on my list for decades.  I love my Dupraz collection, but they do not power through crud piles .  Seem to get more deflected, or go over them, which I describe as the "surfboard" part of the performance.  So, just a different ride characteristic.  When I power up the nose of the Dupraz it seems to collapse at times.  So, I assume the Magistral would power through crud piles a bit more?  Any comment?  I love the Dupraz and it seems to be in a category by itself as far as a snow surfer.  Of course what type of terrain and snow quality you ride is a major factor.  La Grave is an awesome test zone! 

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2 hours ago, LiquidEarth808 said:

Howzit Karen

Thanks for reviving this thread

I noticed on another Euro forum you also have ridden a Dupraz.  Which revives an ongoing discussion of "surfy".  You said you thought the Dupraz was not as "surfy" as the Magistral.  Of course there are so many types of waves and boards...  I have been communicating with Kafi regarding a Swellpanik Magistral, which has been on my list for decades.  I love my Dupraz collection, but they do not power through crud piles .  Seem to get more deflected, or go over them, which I describe as the "surfboard" part of the performance.  So, just a different ride characteristic.  When I power up the nose of the Dupraz it seems to collapse at times.  So, I assume the Magistral would power through crud piles a bit more?  Any comment?  I love the Dupraz and it seems to be in a category by itself as far as a snow surfer.  Of course what type of terrain and snow quality you ride is a major factor.  La Grave is an awesome test zone! 

Dupraz is much more damp than Magistral that's for sure! But the main differentianting factor is the absence of swallowtail which makes D1 less stable at high speed as your back foot doesn't lock into turn. Also, Magistral's nose acts as a front bumper negating the terrain unevenness + it doesn't collapse as Dupraz. 

Because i can only have one board I am selling my Magistral 182 (2018 year model) at a fraction of the price of the new one. Great option for you to get a taste of the board without spending a grand!

Edited by Karen
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What I love most about the Dupraz is that it NEVER feels "locked in".  Never feels under-gunned/unstable or wobbly at any speed.  Can initiate any turn at any time from zero to full speed ahead, unlike my full-cambered boards.  Just not able to really power up the nose to plow through piles as it wants to go over the top, so I adjust my technique accordingly.  It does have an inherent top speed limitation on same slope/conditions of a sleeker board...I assume the Magistral would draw longer lines and maybe out run a Dupraz??

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31 minutes ago, LiquidEarth808 said:

What I love most about the Dupraz is that it NEVER feels "locked in".  Never feels under-gunned/unstable or wobbly at any speed.  Can initiate any turn at any time from zero to full speed ahead, unlike my full-cambered boards.  Just not able to really power up the nose to plow through piles as it wants to go over the top, so I adjust my technique accordingly.  It does have an inherent top speed limitation on same slope/conditions of a sleeker board...I assume the Magistral would draw longer lines and maybe out run a Dupraz??

The Dupraz never feels "locked in" because of the round tail: in that sense it is much easier to make skidded turns in deep pow on Dupraz than on Magistral. But high-speed stability is just on another level on Magistral - the baord IS made for fall-line speed riding! Also, the nose of Magistral is much thinner than Dupraz's which makes it literally fly over the snow pack like a magic carpet...I took Dupraz on catski in Whistler and when submerged in waist DEEP powder the board starts feeling squirelly (due to short radius) whereas the Magistral acts like an arrow which cuts though the powder, remaining ultra stable and unuaffected by the hydrodynamics of the flowing powder on the sides of the board.

 

The Magistral has tri-radial sidecut 13 on the nose, 11 on the tail and 9 in-between. The sidecut itself makes little difference in deep powder - it is more the stramlined shape of the board that helps the board feel secure no matter how you push it...in that sense i feel musch more confident on magistral than on dupraz. But Dupraz is better in tight situations

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No, but i know bunch of guys who did and they liked swellpanik more

 

If you are looking for more speed and explosiveness from the ride i would suggest that you look at the Swellpanik Global

Edited by Karen
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  • 3 years later...

So, did anyone ever hardbooting powder on a fully rockered board? Lots of discussion in this thread, but I was hoping to hear about how it works in practice, because I've been thinking about going that route for my next board.

For the last several years I've been riding what suits me perfectly for everything except powder... so I've been thinking it would be fun to ask Sean @ Donek to use all of the same specs and just swap the current profile for a mild full rocker.

Current board is 172cm x 19cm, 13m SCR. Cambered in the middle, with flat sections outside the binding inserts that lift the nose and tail a little bit when standing on the board. And it's exactly what I want, most of the time. But in powder it seems very sensitive to fore/aft balance, like there's a fine line between submarining and leaning back too far. I'm hoping that rocker will make fore/aft balance a little less twitchy in powder, more like a wakeboard.

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So you are suggesting a 172x19cm board, but with full rocker?

I'd expect powder riding would improve, but it would suffer dramatically anywhere else. You will ruin it's alpine board qualities, and for that price you might just improve the powder riding from very poor to poor.

You would be far better of with a compromise. Lower camber a bit and increase width. A 22cm wide board is much nicer in powder then 19cm and still perfect for freecarving. Reducing camber, but not eliminating it. Nose and tail rocker starting a bit earlier. Maybe bit more taper and setback. Bigger nose. etc.

At least that is the direction I am going with my "one board that does it all" attempt.

Wild idea if you really want full alpine board dimensions with rocker: A tension rod along the top of the board, that you can tension to pull it into a rocker when you want to ride powder.

 

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2 hours ago, TimW said:

At least that is the direction I am going with my "one board that does it all" attempt.

But does nothing well. 
 

Just shift your binding towards the tail and unbuckle the tops of your boots on powder days. 

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7 hours ago, NateW said:

So, did anyone ever hardbooting powder on a fully rockered board? Lots of discussion in this thread, but I was hoping to hear about how it works in practice, because I've been thinking about going that route for my next board.

...I'm hoping that rocker will make fore/aft balance a little less twitchy in powder, more like a wakeboard.

Holy necro 😉 

Please don't make me read back through all this to remember which boards were rockered and which weren't.

I do remember riding rockered boards when they were in fashion - Burton and Lib I think. I didn't really find the rockers much different, other than that the noses had a tendency to wander a bit if you didn't discipline it. Not a big deal, but you don't, in my view, get the benefits which skiers seem to get from their rockers, possibly because of the difference in load as applied to a board versus a ski.

The board I actually liked was the Burton Joy Stick which was playful and maybe had less pronounced rocker, or at least not so much as to be annoying.

I did ride with people who were on banana and similar boards, none of them could ride, but that was probably not the fault of the boards which no doubt would have been fine if the riders were good enough. 

Me, I have two boards, one for piste & resort powder, and the other for the deep stuff. It's not a significant issue to fly with two boards (I used to fly with 3), and that works well. For powder I want taper and width, for piste I want Mr Kessler's finest. 


 

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6 hours ago, dredman said:

But does nothing well. 
 

Just shift your binding towards the tail and unbuckle the tops of your boots on powder days. 

I must add that 'all' for me is just carving hard and riding powder.

I mostly ride with my family and dedicated powder days are rare. Now I have dedicated HB and SB boards, and pick a board for the day. I regularly end up doing a powder run on a 20 cm waist, or carving groomers on my SB powder board.

In the past I have built 22cm boards that carved great and were already much more enjoyable in powder. Now I will build a 24cm board, bit bigger nose, channel in the tail so the base in tail is rockered along the center.  I don't expect the same HB performance as narrow boards, but close, and much improved powder riding.

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On 3/7/2018 at 12:14 PM, Karen said:

i am gonna test my newly acquired moss pq60 against swellpanik magistral 186 that i've been riding for ages!

Hey K!

Never saw your report on the side by side test of the Moss vs Swellpank...... 

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I should have mentioned that the powder board I have in mind would be in addition to the other board that I mentioned. It doesn't need to handle groomers well. Riding this on groomers would be an interesting science experiment ("there are no failed experiments, only new data") but if I'm riding my powder board on a groomer, it's because I'm headed back to my car to switch boards. 🙂

I always bring two boards to the mountain: one is the aforementioned 172x19 board, and the other varies depending on circumstances. The 'other' board is usually either an F2 with a 15m sidecut (if mid-week, because no crowds) or a  Donek AX with a 21cm waist and the bindings set back a bit (if there's lots of fresh snow). This new board would replace my current "powder" board. I'm not fond of the 21cm waist, even on powder days.

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8 hours ago, dredman said:

But does nothing well. 

Somebody Get This Man A Moss PQ60!!!

Don't get me wrong, I live my Kessler, Swoard, Thirst for all the options they provide but if I had to be limited to Just One Board the Moss would make me Happy all day long! Loves the knee deep Pow and Loves to Carve the Shite out of the Groom......all on the same run!..... seriously!!     It sacrifices nothing! 

A beginner can ride and enjoy a Moss but to fully experience all it can do it is a ride for an aggressive rider imo.

 

Edited by barryj
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3 hours ago, barryj said:

Loves the knee deep Pow and Loves to Carve the Shite out of the Groom......all on the same run!..... seriously!!     It sacrifices nothing!

I’m sure you’re right but those little tails always amuse the s*** out of me.

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2 hours ago, lordmetroland said:

those little tails

Those  "Little Tails" are some serious R & D.  When you look at the base of the PQ60 the inside area of the tails (as seen in the attached photo) are actually concave which allows two channels for the snow, optimizing a locked-in feeling and board control while reducing wet snow suction and drag.

https://www.mosssnowstick.com/2020-2021/performance-quad-60

 

Moss.jpg

Concave tail.jpg

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9 hours ago, barryj said:

Somebody Get This Man A Moss PQ60!!!

Don't get me wrong, I live my Kessler, Swoard, Thirst for all the options they provide but if I had to be limited to Just One Board the Moss would make me Happy all day long! Loves the knee deep Pow and Loves to Carve the Shite out of the Groom......all on the same run!..... seriously!!     It sacrifices nothing! 

A beginner can ride and enjoy a Moss but to fully experience all it can do it is a ride for an aggressive rider imo.

 

You know, there was a board like that more than 15 years ago... the 4807. 

Heli2020-1.jpg

Edited by BlueB
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10 hours ago, TimW said:

I must add that 'all' for me is just carving hard and riding powder.

I mostly ride with my family and dedicated powder days are rare. Now I have dedicated HB and SB boards, and pick a board for the day. I regularly end up doing a powder run on a 20 cm waist, or carving groomers on my SB powder board.

In the past I have built 22cm boards that carved great and were already much more enjoyable in powder. Now I will build a 24cm board, bit bigger nose, channel in the tail so the base in tail is rockered along the center.  I don't expect the same HB performance as narrow boards, but close, and much improved powder riding.

I think you would like my OES AM prototypes. They carve like beasts (as long as you don't stay on the nose right through the turn) and are practically unsinkable. 23 waist. 

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2 hours ago, BlueB said:

I think you would like my OES AM prototypes. They carve like beasts (as long as you don't stay on the nose right through the turn) and are practically unsinkable. 23 waist. 

What are the dimensions on those?

Currently planning on 178 length, 24.4 waist, 160 eff.edge and 12.5m radius. I am a bit in doubt on the radius (if it is too small to my liking)

AM.png.1b033b0e5d92268b531b8bf52e49bf49.png

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