nils Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 revo base is not concave, its flat, then convex if you press air...its not exactly what i call channels...besides this, the fact that it exists does not prove it works great... N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nils Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 karen: sick story about what happened in Montgenevre..glad alex made it out alive....sick woodwork on the magistral too wow ! i think i need to revarnish my wood boards in glossy its nicer :) N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skwalleur Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 revo base is not concave, its flat, then convex if you press air...its not exactly what i call channels...besides this, the fact that it exists does not prove it works great...N I guess the main point of it is to have flex Control, but I had explained to me from an F2 test rider in La Clusaz that it would work as a powder channel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 karen: sick story about what happened in Montgenevre..glad alex made it out alive....sick woodwork on the magistral too wow ! i think i need to revarnish my wood boards in glossy its nicer :)N Nils, have you tried the Global? Do you think the "feel" in powder will differ from Magistral since Global has a stiffer nose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 The issue number one with a powder channel ( aka concave tunnel right?) would be the loss of versatility for the board: it would be undrivable on the groomed, and appart from pure heliski, the board would be useless. I don't see a problem with that, although it highlights one of the issues here. I just looked at that prior video: you can see the guy's board pretty much at all times. That's not really what I'd call "powder", or if it is, then we've plenty of that at my local snow dome. He's really riding on the stuff underneath the 15cms of fresh. It's not what I ride most of the time or what I want power boards for. For what it's worth I think the rider there doesn't look hugely comfortable; there's something going on with the turns which makes them look forced. Maybe the board's too long, or too stiff... I've never tried a concave tail - the taper boards I'm riding now don't have a lot of tail anyway. If the problem is as stated, engineering a tail which had the flex characteristics of the swallow but which didn't have the external shape would presumably achieve the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilmour Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 John G:Have you ever ridden the Jeremy Jones model from Rossi? My buddy, a former Rossignol employee and devotee swears by the Jones deck for all things soft booting. In previous years, he had me hooked on the Rossignol Levitation which, though it had its limitations, was one of the best production all-mountain boards made several years ago, IMHO. I ran hardboots on my 172 and it excelled in powder and helped me learn how to carve a snowboard on cord. Your insights into the Judge indicate to me that a modern-day powder rider must have some savvy in how to select his/her weapon of choice. IOW, what I find to work for me on my mountain and conditions may not be the best choice for someone in BC or Vermont. As much as I advocate the Milovich designs, they were made specifically for a small window of opportunity as far as powder surfing is concerned. When Dmitiri tried to 'turn the corner' and make his designs cord-friendly or park-friendly, they simply did not translate for a lot of riders. So, does the Jeremy Jones Rossi have promise? Thanks John, Mark I may be wrong but both Judges I believe were designed by Jeremy Jones. I think he signed them both. I have a 159cm (red) and 168Cm (green puke) I rode Aztec at Aspen Ajax- quite steep.. a few hours ago on the 168 judge- and yes.. it stuck to the wall like snot. I was riding with Ray on his Metal 14cm waisted Virus. To add insult to injury I even did two linked EC turns and it worked wonderfully. Yes the flexible movable binding wintersticks never translated to cord....ever.... they were awful to ride on cord..and in some types of powder also very difficult but under the right conditions they were great fun... still I would prefer the Judge nowadays. Again... funny thing--... another snowboarder saw my board and asked.... "Is that a race board" I said... "What makes you think it is a race board?" and he said... " Well you are riding really angled" " I said well not really, my rear foot is at 30 degrees...and I doubt the angular markings are right... looks more like 25 degrees... and the front is 45... but looks more like 40 degrees" I explained I wanted to have an all terrain board so even if a skier drags me into a mogul field... I can handle it- pulls me into powder..I'm fine happy and likely the fastest, and then starts taking off on groomers.. I'll be leading that pack too. I just don't want to give an inch to the skiers...lol.. I think your best bet is finding a solution like I did. Most people assume that HE MUST BE ON AN ALPINE BOARD... because ...well how else would I stick? The answer is a combination of phenomonal tuning, great binding set up and placement (though Catek Freeride Pro II's would likely be far better, and quality soft boots.... the board quality is truly secondary to all of the above. There are limits..... I could blast much much faster on a MADD 158 or 170 any day.. and on hard snow..I'd have even more fun. But I love the puzzled looks from the snowboarders when they see me carve deep and then blast into an unmakeable mess of crud in a powder field.. straight up a steep slope like riding a halfpipe at 30 mph where no undedicated powder board would make it. They Just Can't figure it Out. Sometimes it is fun being weird. ________ Volcano classic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utahcarver Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 I may be wrong but both Judges I believe were designed by Jeremy Jones. I think he signed them both. I have a 159cm (red) and 168Cm (green puke)I rode Aztec at Aspen Ajax- quite steep.. a few hours ago on the 168 judge- and yes.. it stuck to the wall like snot. I was riding with Ray on his Metal 14cm waisted Virus. To add insult to injury I even did two linked EC turns and it worked wonderfully. Yes the flexible movable binding wintersticks never translated to cord....ever.... they were awful to ride on cord..and in some types of powder also very difficult but under the right conditions they were great fun... still I would prefer the Judge nowadays. Again... funny thing--... another snowboarder saw my board and asked.... "Is that a race board" I said... "What makes you think it is a race board?" and he said... " Well you are riding really angled" " I said well not really, my rear foot is at 30 degrees...and I doubt the angular markings are right... looks more like 25 degrees... and the front is 45... but looks more like 40 degrees" I explained I wanted to have an all terrain board so even if a skier drags me into a mogul field... I can handle it- pulls me into powder..I'm fine happy and likely the fastest, and then starts taking off on groomers.. I'll be leading that pack too. I just don't want to give an inch to the skiers...lol.. I think your best bet is finding a solution like I did. Most people assume that HE MUST BE ON AN ALPINE BOARD... because ...well how else would I stick? The answer is a combination of phenomonal tuning, great binding set up and placement (though Catek Freeride Pro II's would likely be far better, and quality soft boots.... the board quality is truly secondary to all of the above. There are limits..... I could blast much much faster on a MADD 158 or 170 any day.. and on hard snow..I'd have even more fun. But I love the puzzled looks from the snowboarders when they see me carve deep and then blast into an unmakeable mess of crud in a powder field.. straight up a steep slope like riding a halfpipe at 30 mph where no undedicated powder board would make it. They Just Can't figure it Out. Sometimes it is fun being weird. John, I was referring specifically to the Jeremy Jones model that Rossignol puts out (2009). And you are correct in stating that Jones designed the Judge(s). Next years (2010) JJ's are rockered and have a very soft flex. I had a phenomenal outing on 1.28.09 riding a Mojo swallowtail with softies and I realized that riding hardboots for several years now had made me a more powerful soft-boot rider. For me, the ultimate powder board 2 days ago was a swallowtail in softies. The week before, it was a Tanker 200 with TD2's and Raichle 123's. I've let go of needing a swallowtail for powder and learned to adapt as a rider to the equipment I have underneath me. I really want to get a Prior Spearhead 178 under my feet. It has the most taper of any of Priors and with a 10m sidecut, I think it could be a monster for my local area and conditions. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilmour Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 Salomon Sick stick 160 cm. 160 cm?? Why that's too small.....??? No its not too small. It floated me better than my Rossignol 168 judge You can go ballistic on this board and its effortless. I'm already trying to con the rep out of his demo. Highest marks for a shorter powder board. Does it carve well? Hmmmm well.. its feels like a ridiculous sub 8m sidecut.. so IMHO I think you need a bigger sidecut. But this is really a board for powder and crud...not for groomers. In trees.. you can't touch it... I can crank it around like a slalomskateboard htp://johnjohnjohnjohn.com no kidding... Never felt so instantly maneuverable. But still- on days like today... The Judge was fun. ripping Aztec and hauling ass direct from groomers at speed up steep snow walls. Madd needs to make a Super Judge..with carbon and extra dampening and ...METAL. and maybe a few other tricks in it.. If Madd won't make it.. I'll design it for someone else. It needs to be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 If you are in the Portland (OR-EE-GONE) area Monday night. Stop by and check out the proto type Rad-Air "Tanker" 200cm boards. These are one offs in the R & D phase. Details of the get together here. We get the chance to ride and drool over the future thanks to Sandy's visit to the PNW. Bryan "Rockered Tankers???" 200cm of sweet longboard surface area that turns easy and rises out of the deep like a .........., Sorry, have to wait to try the board before I get too carried away on the visualizations :) Dream on, it is coming soon to a Rad-Air Dealer near you!!! Sorry, no photos yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrCR Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 I couldn't find any Rossignol Judges, but the Salomon Sick stick can still be had -- still a good route to take? I'm looking for a softboot pow board for non-groomer days to ride both serious pow as well as bombing resort pow chop. The Jones Flagship caught my eye, but I've heard reports it's lacking seriously with regard to dampness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buell Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) I couldn't find any Rossignol Judges, but the Salomon Sick stick can still be had -- still a good route to take? I'm looking for a softboot pow board for non-groomer days to ride both serious pow as well as bombing resort pow chop. The Jones Flagship caught my eye, but I've heard reports it's lacking seriously with regard to dampness. This is an older thread. There are lots of new options for powder. Eastcoast? A lack of dampness probably will not matter in the conditions you are talking about. I have not ridden the Flagship though. For resort chop, I have found that the big nosed, true powder (Fish, Spearhead, Hovercraft) boards do not work as well. I like a stiffer, rockered, mildly tapered, more traditional sized nose (Tanker, Flagship?) that does not get knocked around and flexed as much as the bigger noses. As long as it has a rockered nose, this design is now my preference in powder. I picked up a Furberg for this season and its design is just awesome in powder and super stable in chop. I am also riding a 172 Tanker (review) and will be getting a 162 Tanker for next season. Edited March 29, 2012 by Buell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgassizSkidder Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 I have my eye on the prior fissile. I would like a board that can handle resort chop and the ankle to thigh deep pow we get. Anyone have any experience with this board? I would love something I could use my ATBs on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Dahl Posted March 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 DrCR, I have a Rossi Half gun 159, will sell it for $150 plus shipping. Also have a 159 Stepchild OG Powder, I think it's a better pow board than the Rossi. It has better taper and some nose decamber. Gets on top better and caves better too. And a real clean 185 Rossi Undertaker. All for sale. Agassiz, Jim Callen likes his Fissle-the concept is a good one. Another one to look at is the Unity The Whale. It embodies everything that I see as needed in a short(er) pow stick. 167, massive nose decamber, looks stiff enough to freeride with-that's what it's designed for. I will probably end up with one. As the O.P. here it sums up what I was looking for. It won't replace my 2 Tankers, but I see it as a needed addition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buell Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 Jon, the Whale seems a lot like the Spearhead, which I have really enjoyed and has now been beaten into my rock powder board. Should be fun. I compared my 166 Spearhead to our 156 Hovercraft and they were almost the same board outline wise (the Hovercraft has less taper). The HC is just missing its tail and the nose is blunted a bit to make the 10 cm difference in overall length. Oddly, the 178 Dupraz lined up pretty closely to the 166 SH as well. The Dupraz just had that long pointy nose that if rounded off, like the SH, could almost be made into a 166. It is amazing how boards that are so similar in effective size can be so different in overall length. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted April 1, 2012 Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 I couldn't find any Rossignol Judges, but the Salomon Sick stick can still be had -- still a good route to take? I'm looking for a softboot pow board for non-groomer days to ride both serious pow as well as bombing resort pow chop. The Jones Flagship caught my eye, but I've heard reports it's lacking seriously with regard to dampness. (Zombie thread revival?) The Sick Stick is a more modern design that those Swallow Tails: they are completely different boards. I rode a Sick Stick last year in hard boots (review) and it was ok. It may work as a compromise, but would not be my first choice for powder. The stiffness of it may play better on piste. "length" is to me just a crude way to help people pick the right board; you need to take into account all the parameters of a board's design, not just that specific. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrCR Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 (edited) This is an older thread. There are lots of new options for powder. Eastcoast? A lack of dampness probably will not matter in the conditions you are talking about. I have not ridden the Flagship though. For resort chop, I have found that the big nosed, true powder (Fish, Spearhead, Hovercraft) boards do not work as well. I like a stiffer, rockered, mildly tapered, more traditional sized nose (Tanker, Flagship?) that does not get knocked around and flexed as much as the bigger noses. As long as it has a rockered nose, this design is now my preference in powder. I picked up a Furberg for this season and its design is just awesome in powder and super stable in chop. I am also riding a 172 Tanker (review) and will be getting a 162 Tanker for next season. Yeah, I was hoping to see comments on what the new options are. I'm in the southeast, so I have to travel to board. Nowadays, that means I go ahead and travel out west. The little if any riding I do on the icecost will be likely be exclusively hardbooting a Donek FC I have en route. I've thought a lot about the issue of a long, soft nose in the resort chop tossing the rider around. (I had this issue with my 4807 this year at MtBachelor, albeit it may have been attributable to or in conjunction with the boat hull design or my center of gravity.) I've thought about a Hazelwood with a soft center flex, like how I've heard the Coiler AM refer to, but that Furberg looks interesting. After the exchange rate and shipping though, the Furberg is a rather expensive proposition for a non-custom board. Based on your experience, would you say it's worth the cost for those of us on this side of the pond? DrCR, I have a Rossi Half gun 159, will sell it for $150 plus shipping. Also have a 159 Stepchild OG Powder, I think it's a better pow board than the Rossi. It has better taper and some nose decamber. Gets on top better and caves better too. And a real clean 185 Rossi Undertaker. All for sale. Agassiz, Jim Callen likes his Fissle-the concept is a good one. Another one to look at is the Unity The Whale. It embodies everything that I see as needed in a short(er) pow stick. 167, massive nose decamber, looks stiff enough to freeride with-that's what it's designed for. I will probably end up with one. As the O.P. here it sums up what I was looking for. It won't replace my 2 Tankers, but I see it as a needed addition. Tempting. I'll let you know. That Unity The Whale looks like a good candidate. Thanks for mentioning it. I wonder how stiff it is up front.... (Zombie thread revival?)The Sick Stick is a more modern design that those Swallow Tails: they are completely different boards. I rode a Sick Stick last year in hard boots (review) and it was ok. It may work as a compromise, but would not be my first choice for powder. The stiffness of it may play better on piste. "length" is to me just a crude way to help people pick the right board; you need to take into account all the parameters of a board's design, not just that specific. Yeah, I guess a bit of a zombie thread. I was just curious as to what is current and what is not. Cool blog. I'm going to have to dig through it. Thank for posting a link to your review. With regard to length, what manuf spec do you look at for comparison between pow boards of similar design e.g. nose rocker? Effective Edge? Edited April 3, 2012 by DrCR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrCR Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 Jon, the Whale seems a lot like the Spearhead, which I have really enjoyed and has now been beaten into my rock powder board. Should be fun. Does the spearhead have that much rocker though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buell Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 Does the spearhead have that much rocker though? It has camber in the middle but a large rocker area in the nose. Between that and the taper, it floats incredibly well and is quick through the trees. The nose is bigger than I like in chop and, at this point, I prefer full rocker or closer to full rocker in powder. Boards with camber push the nose and tail into the snow in the powder limiting your turn type options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buell Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 (edited) I've thought a lot about the issue of a long, soft nose in the resort chop tossing the rider around. (I had this issue with my 4807 this year at MtBachelor, albeit it may have been attributable to or in conjunction with the boat hull design or my center of gravity.) I've thought about a Hazelwood with a soft center flex, like how I've heard the Coiler AM refer to, but that Furberg looks interesting. After the exchange rate and shipping though, the Furberg is a rather expensive proposition for a non-custom board. Based on your experience, would you say it's worth the cost for those of us on this side of the pond? I have hesitated to put Furberg's price online but it has been consistent throughout the year. Thus far, he does not charge shipping to the US and there are a lot of Norwegian taxes built into his online price that we do not pay in the US. I paid $519 for mine delivered to my door and that is the price Daniel just charged another BOL member here in the US. It was also by far the easiest European transaction I have had. Just like buying from a shop in the US. He does travel a bit and is a very small company so cannot always respond super quick. Edited April 3, 2012 by Buell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrapster Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 Hmmm. Timely topic. Although not the "ultimate" powder board, I am playing around with designs for a narrow, softy carver that will handle occasional pow/soft snow duties and am vacillating between a pointy shovel (akin to an SG Cult) versus a more hammerhead shape with some decamber. I've got both down to manageable, shorter sizes (163 and 161 respectively) while keeping a carve-worthy, soft boot edge length of 132cm. Maybe it's six of one, half-dozen of the other from that point... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 ...a narrow, softy carver that will handle occasional pow/soft snow duties and am vacillating between a pointy shovel (akin to an SG Cult) versus a more hammerhead shape with some decamber. You are on the right track with this, Mark! This is the most versatile board shape, IMO, too. Cult is one of the best h/boot boards for steep pow and trees I tried. Pointy nose is stiff so it doesnt bounce around when carwing or plowind. Yet, the lack of decamber is the downfall on flatter grad pow/slush. My other favorite all-rounder, Nidecker Proto, practically is a hammerhead with added pointy pose. It performs a lot better on flatter grades. But then, it's a bit soft for my fat a$s, has no taper (so it lacks the "tail-in-turn" in very soft snow). If I could marry the 2 and add even a tad more decamber then Proto, built in titanal while be ashured that it won't explode, I'd be very close to my dream all-rounder. Kessler BX narrow comes close, but I'm terrified to brake it, so I don't do any real all-mountain bashing... But we drifted away form real pow boards... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Dahl Posted April 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 Perhaps I need to rename this "The Thread That Will Not Die!" Everyones needs will vary due to how different east coast-vs-westcoast, inbounds vs true backcountry, trees vs wide open spaces, low angle vs steep. Give me enough speed and I can us my Sims Daytona in backcountry powder, just not the right stick for the job (done it!). Fun thread though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flow243 Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 +2 on the Sick Stick Fast, good edge hold on packed, rips the crud, and floats in the deep stuff really well. It's not a quiver killer but I know a lot of people that ride them 90% of the time. I was weirded out by it at first because it doesn't look like it would be that good... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 Agreed, it looks unlikely but works fine. Try the Joystick too - I avoided that for a while for the same reason ("twin" nonsense), but it rides well and I liked it better than the Sick Stick. The Joystick was a bit more flexible which worked at my weight. It has a weird lateral nose profile which is some jib thing but which isn't a problem once you're used to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrCR Posted April 6, 2012 Report Share Posted April 6, 2012 Anyone spent time with the Nidecker Megalight or Legend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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