John Gilmour Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 I've decided to make a line of protective gear designed to address the specifics of our inherently asymmetrical board sports. Why do we continue to tolerate use crap designed for other sports? There are enough of us now to have a market for quality asymmetric gear that suits our specific needs. Do you want to wear hockey gear while snowboarding??? So why should you be using skier protective wear? WE TOLERATE Stuff that binds, slips when it should stay in place, stinks, is hard to wash or unwashable, is unbreathable, uncomfortable, binds, cuts off circulation, impedes movement, catches on things, chaffes, has failing elastic, and that only protects part of our sideways facing joints etc.. WHY? I won't be making a typical knee pad, elbow pad or padded shorts.. :nono:this is a whole new take on protection. I may even integrate a wrist guard with an elbow pad- or find a way to secure knee pads so they can not move out of the way in an impact. I may use D30 material with a layered outer skin instead of a bulky plastic wear plate. I may use slippery materials on the snow for areas where compression causes damage like wrist injuries or shoulder impacts that result in separated shoulders and broken collar bones from jamming into the snow. In skateboarding, Slide gloves have proven themselves to be more effective than wrist guards at preventing wrist fractures. This is a whole new take on safety. why me?... Because I have F'd myself up worse than most people I know...AND selfishly...I'll benefit the most from developing this stuff to save my own aging bones from impacting the snow, trees, lift poles, snow cats, reckless skiers, and snowmaking equipment.... been there- done that. All of it. I'm interested in how people's gear has failed them. Does it fail you regularly? How did it fail to sufficiently protect? I rarely wear a helmet when snowboarding because at the speeds I regularly ride at- a common snowboard helmet would not sufficiently protect. I want a helmet that can..and I'll wear one every day. Snowmobile helmets have enough impact protection but are very heavy which can cause whiplash type injuries and also have poor lines of sight for my snowboarding. watch this..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfFzesHZCr0&feature=related and this.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPR3XlWkI8Q there is a good shot of the helmet.. Here is a video of a helmet that has failed to sufficiently protect. Pocski.com made this:AR15firin ...and IMHO it's simply designed like crap. Macartney is lucky to be alive after wearing junk like that. You'll see the helmet's plastic strap hardware fail- the helmet shatter into two pieces. The skier sliding unconscious without head protection. IMHO the strap design of this helmet was completely negligent. The nylon webbing strap is merely affixed to both sides of the helmet. If instead the strap had gone under the helmets protective foam and been affixed to the interior of the hard shell and gone OVER the head (between the foam and hardshell). Even if the helmet had shattered as shown... it would have remained on the head of the skier. Had he crashed into a hard object head while sliding unconsciously and unhelmeted... he could have died instantly. Does your helmet have a strap that is affixed to the inside of the hard shell? Should it? I think it should. Should you go out and replace your plastic hardware on your straps with metal and run a strap over the top of the inner shell. I think you should? Will you?? I bet you don?t bother. Not this week, next month or next year. Who has the time? (after i posted tis I cam across a german show..I don't speak german.. but they seem to be discussing the fastex buckles.. I'll get it translated) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4L6wPh32-g Would you buy a helmet that offered better protection and had well thought out features? I think you would. Especially if it was lighter stronger and looked bitching cool with texalium and had the option for integrated electronics?.retrofitable. With better lines of sight specifically designed for board sports. hell- maybe it will work for kite surfing, and skateboarding too. I'd like to use D30 material - http://www.d3o.com in conjunction with a Texalium shell for the helmet (I think this composite material has some unique properties well suited to our usage) with the above mentioned strap configuration without any cheap irresponsible plastic strap fasteners. I'd also like to integrate raw circuit boards directly into the helmet to save on weight and bolt ons like radios, speakers, lights, helmet camera etc. Also to take a fresh look at goggles vs helmet visors and lines of sight.. Snowboarders are different than skiers- our heads are not in the same positions and we deserve gear that is optimized for our use- not for someone elses sport. Also I'd like to see what training injures have been sustained by bomberonline people. Had love handles hit by gates, scapula bruised? Crotch shot by a stubby??? Goggles lens shattered? Lost teeth? Let's see the marks... show us your shredded speed suits, your whipped race armor marks, your cracked goggles, dented helmets, lets see it all. You guys are a resource that no once seems to be paying attention to. I'm listening. No one else is. I will later be offering a pre-order for the above helmet (no it won't be cheap..has anything I've ever made been cheap???) . A $5 helmet for a $5 head. I'll also consider the same pre-order for the armor. So let?s start the fashion show with our favorite colorful friends....the hematomas. where did you get them and why?.... hematomas- internal bruising...Anything that could lead to a stroke- should concern you. I got a hematoma on my lead hip while side slipping on ice at 10 mph at Hunter mountain (edge catch and the board became a piano hinge ....thwapp!? into the ice- my hip nearly cut through to the outer skin-FROM the inside out!) - but I have never in 25 years hit my rear hip. Asym.. you bet. We are NOT Skiers. being it on.. make the pain go away. A picture is worth a thousand words. ________ Magic Flight Launch Box Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eaglez Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 Holy Crap John, was he OK? That was messed up! Ironically, I was looking at a POC helmet and goggles today. The cover pic on one of our Canadian publications, SkiPress, had a cool looking helmet and google combo from POC so I took a look. I think I will keep looking elsewhere now!! I have a Leedom helmet that I have had for about 8 years, and I love it. I think it is Snell approved so, I think better than some cheaper ones. I have it in my mind that helmets wear out over time even if they haven't seen an impact. So I am starting the pain in the ass shopping for a helmet process. I would be interested in what you have in mind for body protection. D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 Knee braces with integrated pads that don't move around would be nice...but you'd have to do something like a custom mold CTI brace with motocross like padding... Hip pad for the leading hip... spine protector with attached kidney padding that stays in place... Put me in line for a helmet once you get a design finalized. if you need a big melon as a mold I'll volunteer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 http://www.d3o.com/ fixed your link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eaglez Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 Hey John, I second the offer of my large melon for a test mold. My head generally is taller than it is round. Like a taller pumpkin instead of a round one. So I always seem to get a pressure point at my forehead unless I go super huge sized and then the helmet is too big. D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadBrad Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 There was a recent thread about BOL members who broke collarbones. It was a lot more common than I expected. I'm not sure how you can best protect against that without some bulky pads or braces. Some folks said that they actually wear motocross body armor now. A couple of weeks ago I landed hard on my left shoulder and heard and felt a crunch so I was worried, but it was nothing serious. No obvious broken bones or severe bruises, but after 2 weeks it still hurts to move my arm certain ways, like when putting on a shirt. The other most common injury I've seen is broken wrists. Gloves with a sliding material in conjunction with some wrist bracing would be good. Making sliding materials durable enough for snowboarders might be a challenge, though. We usually like kevlar for durability, but kevlar doesn't slide well. My helmet is a Briko racing style helmet that I bought several years ago. It's light and warm and comfortable, and I like that it fits pretty close to the head, but the shell and padding are so thin that I doubt it would offer a lot of protection in a hard hit -- probably just keep me conscious enough to enjoy the crash. I don't ride really fast, but I'm thinking I should upgrade my helmet anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncermak Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 For what its worth, McCartney is good shape. His Helmet performed as designed. They are designed to break, thus spreading the impact throughout the helmet, rather than merely tranferring the force of the impact through the helmet to his brain, causing further damage. Helmets are rated by 2 different organizations for safety: ANSI, and SNEL. Buy a certified helmet, and get good protection... John - don't misinterpret this a slam against you and your plans...but as I'm sure you know, you will pick up more liability if your helmet is not certified and you are selling it. I also want ot remind you to do your normal level of due diligence in going forward with this project... That said, Good Luck, and I look forward to seeing what you come up with! -Noah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilmour Posted January 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 Bulk would help if both objects collided like football or hockey players where an elastic collision is the outcome- but if one is an unmovable mass- then it is better to have a slide as opposed to cushioning. It is the sudden deceleration that IMHO breaks the collar bone. After all we are only falling from about 3 feet- it is the deceleration from speed from us gripping the snowthat does it. Dry snow has pretty good grip.... that is what is bad about it for our collarbones and wrists. As carvers we aren't falling on flat as much as on slopes. I can't protect for every situation without making us immovable.. but I think a snowboard specific approach would protect for more of the common situations we encounter in a fall. Bullky shoulder pads are for football- and for chicks that have not updated their closets since 1980. So given our falling heights on average... I think sliding shoulders with light padding will do. Ptex on gloves... just ptex plates. I think glue some scraps on my gloves to test it. ________ VOLCANO VAPORIZER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pebu Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 Years ago my dad was meandering down an easy slope when he stuffed the nose and went over the handlebars. He landed on his shoulder and heard the familiar crunch. He didn't have any broken bones, but he did tear a ligament that held his collarbone down towards his shoulder. Now he can gross people out with his shifty collarbone. I'm not sure if this would help and I can't really think of any way to protect shoulders from injuries like that, but if it helps then I guess it was worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavechaser Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 Finger protection for racing - or X-carving. I tore the extensor tendon in my right pinky finger last year hitting it on a stubbie...took 12 weeks in a splint to get it back to normal, and the doc said I was lucky - avoided having it pinned and possibly drooping or stiff the rest of my life...and I play guitar, whech would have sucked! i no longer wear gloves racing. I wear mittens, and made pinky protection for both hands with the correct inside diameter foam pipe insulation (the pre-split type) cut slightly longer than the finger and then taped at the split. I've seen at least three other racers with this same injury the last two years, and the others weren't as lucky as me with the recovery. NOTE: Don't believe doctors who tell you that after 6 weeks in a splint your drooping little finger needs to be pinned or cannot be made any better - put it back in a "full-extension splint" for 6 more weeks, or more, until it heals straight...and then be VERY careful with it for at least 2-3 months more! Also JG - shinguards for snowboard racing that face more forward than the ski slalom type ones, and fit goofy/regular. Great idea!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilmour Posted January 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 On the web they said he was released and went home to SLC so if he is okay for flying home...I would assume the brain pressure is down. He is under going more neurological tests. Already ramping up.. getting material. ordered ________ CALIFORNIA MEDICAL MARIJUANA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilmour Posted January 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 After my 3 tree hit I was supposed to get these for both knees. http://www.dme-direct.com/donjoy-defiance-iii/ I managed to recover enough not to need them, had my hardware removed (4" Tibia plateau fracture 2 plates 5 screws) and was promptly hit by a Expedition while standing still for a light the morning after my staples were removed. So I may ultimately need them after that. Attaching to a brace is good because the pad can float and not come in contact with the knee until actually needed. ________ Yamaha mm6 history Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadBrad Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 Football players don't just have elastic collisions, they get slammed to the hard grippy ground with some 250+ lb. dude on top of them. It amazes me, especially when I see the slow motion shots, how hard their hips and other body parts hit the ground. And they do it over and over again. Ironically, my hardest falls seem to be on flat ground. When I'm carving hard, crashes usually involve the board sliding out from under me and I just skid on the snow. But when going slow, like practicing riding backwards on a beginner slope, or on a flat traverse, catching an edge can slam you down pretty hard. One exception is when you are carving over a transition and the board leaves the ground and you fly through the air sideways and land on your shoulder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilmour Posted January 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 Flat ground is the worst. ooooofff! You said it! But a fall on the flat onto snow likely won't break anything either... if it does... I should think about taking up tiddly winks as a extreme sport. Fall onto a marble floor- or slip on ice in the street- that's worse. The worst is when you are moving with enough momentum to catch an edge and have this forward momentum translate into downward momentum + have gravity add to it. = pain. And hips and wrists and tailbone- head come to mind then. I think the pads will be good to have on the seat- besides it insulates us from cold chairlift seats and sitting on the snow- just a thin pad and a little extra on the tailbone. I will make sure they have venting so we don't get condensation on the pads. also something to protect the iliac crests and rear lower ribs and spine. I don't think so many beginners would buy carver and snowboard specific high end protective clothing with integrated pads for their first time out. Maybe borrow some hockey pants ... or perhaps buy a $40 paid of "crash pads" shorts. but for us- we are typically moving along at a clip and we don't catch edges so much because we are carving not skidding. But padding for when an edge blows out..as you say.... well that is a paramount place to put padding... and that is the kind of feedback that really helps this thread. I might not remove all pain- but I want to eliminate as many emergency room visits as possible without feeling like the michelin man out there. Certain parts of my body never get hit. Like the back of my rear leg, my trailing shoulder, mostly what is aft of center of the board except for the toeside part of my body. ________ Buy Bubblers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skategoat Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 John: Not only are we not like skiers, we are also not like other snowboarders. I'm sure you're going to go get all the stats about snowboarder injuries, but when I see those, the questions start - how many of those were terrain park injuries, how many were free riding, how many were off-piste hitting rocks and trees. FWIW, I have sustained more injuries (minor, all of them) in 7 years of snowboarding than in the previous 20 years of skiing. Most frequent are the shoulder injuries. I get these from jamming my hand into the snow and impact running up my straight arm and near-separating the shoulder. I don't know how any padding would help that. The other injuries are broken ribs, concussions and bruised hips. I would spend more on a helmet. My Giro cost $150. I'd spend double that and am considering it with a POC. The only reason I would do that is because I've suffered 5-6 concussions in my life. The most recent one, I didn't even lose consciousness. I was riding, crashed hard, got back on the lift and completely forgot how I got there. But, do you know what you're getting into here? Manufacturing is no easy task. Especially protective gear for high risk sports. I shudder at the thought of what liability insurance would cost you. I wish you luck though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 John:Not only are we not like skiers, we are also not like other snowboarders. I'm sure you're going to go get all the stats about snowboarder injuries, but when I see those, the questions start - how many of those were terrain park injuries, how many were free riding, how many were off-piste hitting rocks and trees. I wish you luck though. I disagree, I am on plates most of the time but I also ride softboots, I'd want my gear to work for both. Most competent hardbooters ride in the trees and bumps and so on when there is a dump on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NMU Alpine Boarder Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Personally, the helmet issue has been something that I took steps to upgrade a few years ago. I see ski helmets as flimsy and only offering minimal protection for the speeds that we are going. One day I was out riding some hardpack and I had an epiphany. Hard snow is no softer than packed dirt or sand. As someone who has always toyed around on quads and dirtbikes, why should I wear a helmet with so much more padding and more ridged shell for that when I am only going slightly faster on a surface just as hard? Since I had already been riding in a full face Solomon helmet, it was a no-brainer... For the price of a good ski helmet, you can get a Motocross helmet that , IMO, offers a ton more protection. You have a more rigid shell, more internal padding, more contact area inside the helmet, and a better chin strap... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilmour Posted January 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Skategoat, if you are jamming your hand during a carve- say hitting a tuft of snow when at extreme angles... I can show you a different way to position your hands so that when you hit the tuft of snow your hand does not jam back into your shoulder.. Are you coming to Aspen for the sesh? As for the shoulder injuries where you go over the handlebars- maybe MX gear would suit you if you find that happening on a semi regular basis. MY advice would be to change gear that helps to prevent the nose folding and adapt your riding technique to different snow conditions. The shoulder is not like the hip joint and is harder to protect. As for the liability - I'll develop this stuff...and sell the design to a company that already has a good insurance. If I design it well enough inuries should be minimal. As for gear that works or both.. that is an easy thing to do. All that needs to be done is to have the afixing portion of the padding separate from the positioning of the padding. So if the pads are set for running gates at angles 58 front and 54 rear your pads would rotate to cover impact areas. I was also toying with the concept that Pipe riders who are at say 12 and -3 have different needs. I think that a longer pad for racing could be folded and affixed to become "double thick" (perhaps velcro on the inner sandwich to make sure they don't shift) for more knee protection and less shin and quad protection. The pads are then rotated to match the needs of the terrain park rider. Noah- I certainly don't take it as a slam against me about the helmets breaking... but I think that they are going after a wrong paradigm. I certainly wouldn't expect to see a formula 1 racers helmet break or a Motorcyle racers... and frankly if you figure out the speed 139 kph I think you need more protection than a helmet that breaks. Just because someone gets into a crash and survives without injury still does not mean that the gear adequately protected him for his speed..he could have just been lucky with his crash or decelerated enough so that when his head finally hit it was within the protection range for the gear. No, I'm pretty certain that had Macartney been wearing a more significant helmet his injuries would have been reduced and I don't believe that the Pocski helmet was able to sufficiently protect. Put it this way, if I have to be medivac'd out by a chopper.... I don't think I wore enough protection. There are plenty of motorcycle crashes at higher rates of speeds with head collisions and the riders are still conscious and walking instead of convulsing. Our heads have about the same consistency as a watermelon. I'm not convinced that styrofoam cup technology is the best we can do in 2008. Drop a water melon onto styrofoam a 10 feet up and now drop it onto a better shock absorbing substance I want the best shock absorbing substance in my helmet that money can buy. I'm not going to buy a $650-1000 snowboard $400 shell, $250 pants, $150 fleece, $100 in base layers, $400 boots, $100 gloves, $80 goggles , $60 lift tickets, and $80 in gas, $190 hotel room, $40 dinner and drinks, and then cheap out and buy a $60 helmet that is only designed for sub 20 mph impacts. But so many people do EXACTLY that. I guess that is Darwinism at its finest example. Would you buy a car with seat belts that won't break only if you are going under 30 mph in a collision? I wouldn't...even if the car was $400 less.... I wouldn't. People need some education. Less marketing and more real education. How can a helmet company design a adequate helmet when they have to sell it to the stores for $30 wholesale and pay their employees and insurance,packaging marketing etc..... They can't and don't. It's like auto safety recalls.. Doing the math corporations may find it is cheaper to hire a better lawyer and buy more liability insurance than to try and sell a more expensive higher quality helmet to the public. I'm not trying to maximize profitability. I'm just trying to do the responsible thing. If my friends are buying helmets that I have a hand in designing I don't ever want to see them in a coma just because someone chose a cheaper temperature sensitive material like ABS for an outer shell to hit a lower price point that was requested by a retailer. So many ski and snowboard and skateboard helmets are just barely better than nothing. I know...I've been racing in a worthless Jay Adams flyaway helmet for 25 years that shouldn't be allowed for slalom racing (the flex pattern of the flyaway helmet is completely wrong) - only because I have yet to find something that will sufficiently protect me at over 30 mph (slamming into a fixed obstacle) that I can still race in. I haven't bought a new helmet because I haven't found one that will do the job. Speedboarding is different- I wear motorcycle snell approved helmets- and visability in them is horrible. ________ Digital vaporizer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilmour Posted January 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 WB I'm not doubting that things are designed to deform in accidents. At the point of maximum pressure where it nearly equals the pressure to fracture a skull....something should happen to quickly reduce that pressure. And perhaps allow a secondary crumple type zone to begin to work... Given the materials that helmet manufacturers have in production currently... it is likely the best choice they have. You do the best you can within your material and construction method limitations. I believe in crumple zones in a car completely. But a complete fracture into pieces..not so sure if that is the best way to protect. I also think you are better off with a helmet staying on- but making sure it is well engineered not to get snagged. Macartneys helmet did not snag on anything. I would like to think it would have been better to have it remain on his head- even if it was cracked in two pieces You know- its like cars. Decades ago we used Bias Ply tires. Given the construction of the tire and the materials used it was the best we could do. Then steel belted radials came along. Today Airplanes still retread with Bias plys. But hey ..they aren't doing much cornering...lol. I'm sure there were people touting that bias ply was the standard and that steel belted radials were just a passing fad- and that they would be too dangerous to implement, and that if everyone else was making bias plys the whole industry couldn't be wrong..... The shoulder thing- yes it is mechanical for some falls.. but not all. The best thing you can do for shoulders is talk to a physical therapist and have him show you what exercises to do to strengthen that area to reduce your points of vulnerability.. Which is why rugby players are constantly blowing out shoulders in every game. Use a cable machine in the gym... Elite athletes who are sponsored don't pay for gear much. Bodie Miller is using a new d30 padded suit made by spyder. We at bomber...typically pay for our protective gear. We are able to make a choice that is not influenced by materials available to a sponsor. I like to think we enjoy quality and understand it...and also buy it. If I could, I would sponsor everyone here with the best helmet money can buy and be signing a check as I write this.. but seeing that I'm not Carlos Slim Helu.... I have to make it and sell it to a manufacturer under the stipulation that they do not water it down. ________ Volcano digital vaporizer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eaglez Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 McCartneys helmet split, which is what others say it is supposed to do. That is all fine and good.....as long as some part of it stays on the head for secondary protection. And that the chin strap helps to faciltate that. It looked like his helmet just flew to pieces on impact. I don't know about you guys, but watching his lifeless head skid across the ice for that distance with no protection whatsoever was unsettling. D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willywhit Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 I'm definately getting some new pads for skating. The last time I slammed, we were skating a parking garage at night and a 19 year old Berklee student tangled our boards up and I went down hard. I stumbled over this today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 As Willy has seen I skate in full gear all the time...(OK maybe not always with elbow pads but everything else) Good slide gloves are too easy to make, Mellon Cover is just smart and as for kneepads PD's PC's or 187's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavechaser Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 I'm definately getting some new pads for skating. The last time I slammed, we were skating a parking garage at night and a 19 year old Berklee student tangled our boards up and I went down hard. I stumbled over this today. That pic looks like La Costa - any idea where it is for sure? Don't forget the leathers if you really go fast! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilmour Posted February 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 This stuff is incredible. So thin yet absorbs so much shock. And what I am finding really exciting about it.... well If you say hit a wall....well regular padding will work well.. but if you hit a smaller surface...the regular foam will allow the point to intrude on a persons flesh ... that is why conventionally it helps to put a layer of hard plastic on the outside of pads to distribute that force better...which adds weight..loss of flexibility etc etc. This d3o stuff... well if you cover you palm with it and strike flat open palm a sharp corner..there is almost no intrusion...and get this...the faster you strike it... to a point of course..the better the shock absorbing effect feels- intrusion seems to lessen to an extent as speed of strike increases!... almost as if the material reacts better to fast shock...which of course is what they say it will do- but it almost feels like faster makes it firmer...not just like hit a "threshold impact speed" and you get one firmness... i am sure at a point it does plateau- and the range might not be huge but you can feel thast it is there. I was really smacking this stuff with my palm on a formica corner... and you can feel something...but not much considering how thin the foam is perhaps 3/16ths of an inch. Now I had this d3o stuff covered with cloth. When I switched to regular cloth covering standard knee pad high density foam about 5/8ths thick. ..the regular foam allowed the point to penetrate and ripped the cloth- and the foam. So if the guy who was speared in the ribs during a boarder cross had been wearing this around him.... He might not have been injured badly or at all. Maybe flat tailed boards could be ok. besides.realistically were are all bombing down hills with dual edge knives attached to our feet anyhow. I did hear about a boardercross where a round tailed board literally scalped the face off of someone- but - it was perfectly reattached- at least cosmetically- I don't know about long lasting nerve damage however.... I gotta say - after playing with this stuff... I just can't justify using conventional materials.....I think it is nearly legally irresponsible not to immediately adopt this stuff. Lighter- more flexible stronger- limited intrusion protecting..admirable to say the least. So for body armor this is the way to go. I had a secondary design idea for Dragon Skin (Bullet proof armor) that I had not submitted...but I can see it would work well with this stuff.... a layer on top- and it could be very light and abrasion esitant and completely flexible if I get to use the shape plate I want.... I am not convinced that traditional helmet layering (material layer covered by hard shell) is the optimal either...I'm thinking laminates with measured burst points to disipate force. Lets put it this way.. a round Hard helmet by definition has "point contact" in the case of impact. Using d3o on the outside its conformability could make that point contact more spread out. This is at the progation of the impact...so it might be easier to handle the forces there after....just an odd ball hypothesis of mine. Now if you combine this with a layered impact system- we might be able to reduce the shock more by the time it reaches the skull... Think of it this way... Would you rather be hit in the head by a spear, or by a volleyball? The odd issue. who will buy it? I spent a few hours in a a very busy store watching people come in and buy helmets (I was getting boot fitting done anyhow)...the main question.. Which looks better?... and "Do you have any in Yellow? Where can I find any helmet in yellow"...this was a guy BTW The issue with marketing... people buy helmets more like they were buying a hat. Not once did I hear anyone ask about which one protected better. Not a single utterance... or is this good for speed. People did not even seem to associate one brand over another for better protection... The feature that impressed people the most.. was not protection.... but a sliding air vent. One woman even talked about her new helmet as an "upgrade" because the ears were now exposed on her new one. (she'd rather have the broken skull than the broken jaw)....... sigh... You know.... people can be going 10mph on a blue slope....being very careful, and a 260lb going 50mph skier can clock them from behind... so much for safe skiing.... will that yellow helmet save them or is a red one a better choice...? ________ Classaction Settlements Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavechaser Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 Ahhhh.......fashin! (intentional sp) John - is the D30 the stuff they are making the new crop of "dragon skin" bulletproof vests out of? I'm thinking that the current advances in anti-ballistic body armor could really have applications in sports as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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