Race waxes?

[DiveBomber]

Like to get some feedback on waxes. I have some Blue and purple Purl, its ok But nothing special, Some Burton Flourocomp Graphite wax, havent used it much cause its tiny and expensive, and not sure how good it is.

Just had chevron grind done on one board, and they put some swix 6, but just with a belt, wore off after a couple runs, board didnt seem all that fast with the Swix.

[DiveBomber]

Hmmm just remebered dominator, will call them today.

[DiveBomber]

anyone familliar with racewax.com?

[bobdea]

racewax.com has some great products and some real crap too, in the end I'd just go with dominator's line as it is easiest to use and generally works the best, well, for me anyway. Also, Thanos (the guy who owns and runs the company) is one hell of a guy. the burton wax is the lower end dominator BTW.

Always use graphite if you can, it help cut static in dry snow and in wet snow repels dirt.

One product that is indespensable to me is renew zoom which is also by dominator.

if you want a fairly good selection of swix LF waxes at a killer price go here http://reliableracing.com/detail.cfm?edp=10700524&category=2500 also there is a training wax

if you use swix waxes this guide is very hand http://www.swixsport.com/dav/1921ce52b7.pdf

[Seb]

Advice from a wax technician who use to be World Cup technician:

No matter what, stick with one brand ( true or not ? ). Different company have different approach as far as their "molecule". If you keep switching company or worse put a base layer from one and put final one from a different you may end up with a mess.

I personally use Holmenkol Betamix 95% of my run ( from 32F to 0F ), and add fluor type top layer for race day...because I'm getting good advice from the Holmenkol rep. Never had problem.

Remember, brushing after scraping is an important part of the waxing process.

[AK in PA]

Seb, Can you explain brushing? I've always buffed out the wax with a Scotch Brite scrubby pad after scraping to level irregularities and impart a slight texture along the board. Is that the same or different than brushing?

[ncermak]

that is sort of the same, but not as effective. brushing involves a brass or horsehair (most common to use a combo) brush that will help clean out the wax buildup in the structure of the base (which, incase you forgot, you put there for a reason, not just to hold more wax) which will help prevent stiction (the suction that occurs when you put water beneath a smooth surface - Thick of a coater sticking to a glass).

The base layer gets absorbed into the board, the overlays will generally rub off in the first few hundred feet of a run. they help get you up to speed, but that's about all...

-Noah

[neil sunday]

I have done extensive time testing to compare SWIX and HOLMENKOL waxes of "equal" quality. These brands are by far the most trusted on the world cup circuit-- look at the schooch brothers, marc iselin, doresia krings, Urs Eiselin, Antii Auitti,seth wescott, etc...

Other than Dominator (official wax of the US SNOWBOARD TEAM), most all other waxes are lower level. Purl, OBJ, etc may be fine to use for recreational riding, but not on your investment of a high end alpine setup.

More inportantly than which specific brand of wax you use, is how you use it. become familiar with a line of products and then test, and research how to properly clean your base, apply wax at the right temp, apply the right wax, how to scrape, and brush, etc. this willl make you a more proficient racer.

check out hte following for tips on waxing:

www.swixsport.com

www.holmenkol.com

If you felt Swix CH6 was slow- it was probably just off for the snow/air temp.

Brushing is a way to remove wax from the structure of your base- making the p-tex more effective at removing suction (water) from under the board. Brushing is done with a variety of different stiffnesses in the brush. soft brushes are used for very expensive flourocarbon overlays. a medium brush works for just about all your mid temp range waxes... a "hard bristle brush works for colder waxes, and a brass bristle / combi brush works for removing oxidization from the base, and for really cleaning out the pores of the base.

you can use brushes very efffectivly simply by "brushing" in a straight line from tip to tail, overlapping alll brush strokes. usually 10 strokes per area, then move across or down the board. keep certain to brush in a straight pattern, especially at the end of the brush stroke when most beginners tend to curve the brush, as there arm is straightening out.

A roto brush is a great tool, and any coach should save there pennies to get one. i have multiple different roto brushes to remove waxes from 6-8 boards per race. it's nice when you are in charge of the tuning, as all the waxes on the kids baords are a certain brand (all the same) this prevents contamination of your expensive brushes from other lower quality junk wax that will clog the brushes.

Good Luck in your tuning. may you reap the benfits of good wax and good brushing!

[philfell]

First off, take your board to a professional and have it totally preped out. You just got your board stone ground, then belt waxed it?! Major foul here. You will probably have to start over at a quality shop, Racer Edge is close by. When you get your board stone ground to comes out totally dry and waxless, you need a ton of prep work before it is ready to ride. Just running it over a belt waxer, then riding it and leaving it will probably cause your base to oxidise and it will no longer absorb the amount of wax it should.

Go to the dominator site and read everything, then you can go to the tognar tools site and there is a ton of good info there.

[Bordy]

To buy good waxs, your going to have to get that job....

[Randy T.]

Have any of you guys ever tried or heard of Hertel wax? I have been using the super hot sauce for years and I think it works great.

[neil sunday]

yup. hertel... good in high humidity conditions...

comparable to a SWIX CH10 i think.

as bordy said-- for good wax, get a good job!

and phil has an excellent point about dried out baords.

once boards come back from a stone grind, i normally will wax a stick about 6 times befoe it hits the snow again. this rejuvinates the dried out base. a hot box treatment is good for them once in a while as well, if you have the resources for one.

[Randy T.]

Okay so here is another question. I have a new Donek on order and this will be my first brand new carving board. What should I do to it when it arrives?

1. Use a base prep wax and then the Hertel.

2. Just apply several coats of the Hertel.

3. Start with a hot box. (Our local REI does them)

4. Other?

[pebu]

Hertel is a hi-flouro wax, is it not? Seems like you'd want something a little more substantial as a base.

And also, back from a stone grind, don't you want to scrape it really well (and possibly with different tools) to get rid of the hairs?

[bobdea]

Advice from a wax technician who use to be World Cup technician:

No matter what, stick with one brand ( true or not ? ). Different company have different approach as far as their "molecule". If you keep switching company or worse put a base layer from one and put final one from a different you may end up with a mess.

According to Thanos the above is not true, he says it's fine to mix waxes if I remember correctly. he also seems to think allot of world cup techs are too wrapped up in wax mythology, and their egos. Since the guy is a chemist I tend to believe him.

[DiveBomber]

I did take the board to the Shop Coach reccomened, Prescion Ski tune in Frisco, Got the Chevron grind, if anyone is familliar with that. They just said a Buff wax was included in the price, and "try it out". didnt have time for a Hot wax and I didnt bring my tools with me, as I had waxed it 2 days before. I think the board was slightly faster.

So I figure before I Go and Hot wax it I might Do it right.

That shop did have some Holmenkol, but I never heard of it, So I was un sure.

SO, what on racewax.com is good and what is bad?

It seems kind of a PITA to have to rewax for every little minor change, I mean Heck,half of the time you wont know what the conditions are going to be like till you actually get on the hill.

[Randy T.]

Hertel is a hi-flouro wax, is it not? Seems like you'd want something a little more substantial as a base.

And also, back from a stone grind, don't you want to scrape it really well (and possibly with different tools) to get rid of the hairs?

Yes, this is taken from their wax fax e-book. The e-book has some good information in it. The .pdf is too large to attach but I would be happy to e-mail it to anyone interested. See below for a list of content.

Hertel & Company, a Sunnyvale, California based firm located in the heart of Silicon Valley, has successfully encapsulated Fluorocarbons into parafin, which up to now was said to be impossible! We have been able to accomplish this with White Gold Wax, Racing FC739 Wax, Super Hot Sauce Wax and Spring Solution Wax. We have also created a new extremely slick wax vehicle called 158 Flex used in our Racing FC739 Wax. This, along with surfactants and PEFD, make our new waxes extremely flexible while enhancing durability. This wax system actually bonds to the PE base of skis and snowboards.

CONTENTS

1.) The Myth of Speed

2.) Hertel Products Reduce Surface Tension

3.) What is a Surfactant?

4.) Low Surface Tensions, Low Concentrations and Stability

5.) What are Fluorocarbons? Additives Not Linked to Ozone Destruction.

6.) Improve Your Performance

7.) What is Wax?

8.) What are Dynes?

9.) Snow & Water

10.) What's Happening Under Your Ski?

11.) Kinds of Wax

12.) Rub-On

13.) Iron-On

14.) Solid Waxes

15.) Liquid Waxes

16.) All-Tempertature

17.) Pre-Waxes

18.) Ski Maintenance

19.) Why Wax?

20.) What About Waxing?

21.) How To Wax

22.) Tuning Your Skis / Snowboard

[Guest shrederjen]

On a new grind,

Wax on, wax off about 10 times.

Then, you are ready to ride..... :)

I have been using www.racewax.com for the past year or so.

I wont tell my secret mixtures, but, spend about $100 bucks on good wax and you will be set for a few years.

But, once again, on a new grind, wax on/wax off about 10 times with the iron and scraper, then you be ready to rip.

I wax 2 to 3 times the night before a race, with different, ummmmm combos (such as cold/warm/graphite, etc...)

with racewax.com spend the money to buy the flouros... http://www.racewax.com/servlet/the-67/Wax%2C-ski%2C-snowboard%2C-race%2C/Detail Honestly, at this time, I use the green and the red.

[Guest mibrady2]

Holy crap! I didn't know wax could be so expensive. I thought you guys were just "broke as a joke" SNB bums complaining about spending $30 for a block of wax.

But I do have a question though. Many of the high end bases now are "wax impregnated." Would you not want any factory wax on a board used for racing?

[inkaholic]

DB,

In CO you generally don't need a bunch of high flouro expensive waxes since we have drier snow. Swix and Dominator low flouro stuff works well in our climate and I have been successfully using Holmenkol for the past few seasons. Mostly low flouro till spring conditions arrive then switch to high flouro. ABS in Boulder has Dominator.

Ink

[philfell]

If it is a board you are using for comps, you should wax every time you ride it. And yes keeping a board competition ready (espicially for SBX) is a major PITA.

[wavechaser]

Good Luck in your tuning. may you reap the benfits of good wax and good brushing!

Neil - overheard a well-known USASA alpiune coach last weekend giving some brushing advice to one of his riders. He had her brush (at first) at a 45 degree angle (towards the tail of course), then 45 degrees the other way (still towards the tail) - with the idea that her structure was in that general pattern and this cleaned more wax out of the structure...then follow that by lightly brushing tip to tail non-stop. Also told her not to POUND the brush too hard on the board when it first hits the p-tex, but to PLACE it on the board, then run it down the base...the idea being not to pull up any excess p-tex hairs.

Ever heard of these techniques? I never had. Phil?

[neil sunday]

Yes- it's to follow the structure pattern as you suggested. it works rather well for directional riding...

[neil sunday]

William- very well stated.

[Randy T.]

Hey Rob I tried to e-mail you but they just get kicked back. Can you update your profile or send me another e-mail that I can reply to.

snowcarver70 at gmail dot com