An Idea for Racers coming to BOL

[SpeedracerJVB]

Again, i'm at a loss, Chaser, I wasn't upset nor was I trying to defend myself, I have no reason to but please allow me to apologize, I didn't read the BOL too kool for school handbook on how to respond to ****ing idiots.

Billy, this is a lost cause man...

[FTA2R]

what a great thread.

i couldn't agree more with the speedracerjvb.

seems a just a few members have to be constant d'bags and are almost always either angry at the world, overly pessimistic and find fault in everything, generally criticize, or think they are the BOL police (or some combination thereof)...like the guy said:

"honestly, we have better things to do with our lives, you should consider doing the same"

so the guy actually has a life and does other things besides BOL ...follow his lead, dont' hold it against him.

seriously, i would LUV to meet some of you in person

[NMU Alpine Boarder]

Look, Ive defended the "Racer" mentality since I've been here.... Unfortunately, I am just some college kid that enjoys snowboarding, and who happens to have a dream of racing for a living, or at least an ability to race without thinking about the financial consequences of going to said race....

Just because I got XX more posts, does it mean that I "know" more than half of the people that show up here? HELL NO!!!!

I am learning everyday from people that post here, whether their postcount is 20 or 1020..... It doesn't make a difference.... If their concept makes sense to me, in my head, I am going to try it, and let my own results dictate the outcome....

[tex1230]

edited 'cause it's just not worth it.

Come to ECES - I'm buying beer.

[Jack M]

I am not saying racers owe anybody anything. I am not saying racers aren't qualified to post without a resume. I just thought it might help. Sheesh.

Shouldn't everyone get treated with respect? Absolutely. Is this reality? Dream on.

Someone cited the fact that Alexa Loo and Sean Martin and Bruce Varsava get treated with total respect here. Well, could that have something to do with the fact that their screen names are Alexa Loo, Donek, and Bruce Varsava? Everyone knows who they are and what they do and have done, so they have instant cred. That's just human nature.

I've noticed a pattern here where if a racer gets questioned or challenged, perhaps in a flippant manner, the racer gets pissed and storms out. Many times, before they leave, the racer drops the "don't you know who I am" card. Or Bordy drops it for them. That's understandable. I'm just suggesting drop the card up front and avoid the problem.

Bordy, you have a problem with disrespectful people, not BOL members. Just like some skiers have a problem with youths and punks, not snowboarders.

To everyone, everyday you come here you have a choice. You can choose to enjoy the signal and ignore the noise, or you can choose to let it ruin your day. Either way, it's up to you.

[Bordy]

Again, i'm at a loss, Chaser, I wasn't upset nor was I trying to defend myself, I have no reason to but please allow me to apologize, I didn't read the BOL too kool for school handbook on how to respond to ****ing idiots.

Billy, this is a lost cause man...

J,

For years now.....

Inportant thing is there are people here for the right reasons. Some times you have to let the Bullys have their way and not get rattled.

Just because some dude thinks its his job to educate folks on BOL but he himself is not educated thats OK. I bet 20% of the board is in the know and laughing at the Bafoon. How ever the 80% that beleaves the bafoon thats the baffons crew.. so the bafoon thinks they are super cool. But 20% know better.

Come to BOL for the 20% its better then the 2% that was here in the begining.

For every thanks Billy e-mail I get I still get e-mail that says I am the Bafoon.

Had a guy once tell me I need to step out of my little racer world cuz i knew nothing about freeriding????

Thats the action at BOL.. to self centered to think that a rider who can turn when ever they want however they want can't freeride???

Then the same dude is asking tuning advice the next day. Guess who I don't help....

Its all a circle...round...you know..for kids.........

[trailertrash]

I think we have established the problem. There is a communication issue on both sides of the table.

How do we fix it?

How do we make BOL more inclusive? What can we actually do?

Ban the top posters? :)

Moderate more? Less?

Have more rules?

Have a Mission Statement defined for BOL so threads and posts are more on topic?

Have classes on how to put people on the "Igonore List"?

Ideas?

[wavechaser]

Again, i'm at a loss, Chaser, I wasn't upset nor was I trying to defend myself, I have no reason to but please allow me to apologize, I didn't read the BOL too kool for school handbook on how to respond to ****ing idiots.

Billy, this is a lost cause man...

Speed...emailed you. A few ideas and comments, nothing harsh.

[MUD]

TT,

The most civil site I frequent they moderate the crap out of..... And it still happens. I know we don't want heavy moderation, we have voted in the past. I think it is how it is...... This is BOL, welcome to the clique.

I used to have a problem with it, now I just don't care.......

[wavechaser]

I think we have established the problem. There is a communication issue on both sides of the table.

How do we fix it?

Ideas?

First, I wish that threads which degenerate into people calling other people certain names, or using even edited profanity like "f***ing", would be taken to PM or email with the parties in question. Why do that stuff publicly (unless we are making fun, for fun's sake, of alt-logins like skeezrule)?

Maybe make it a rule that you can't use even edited profanity or vulgar words/phrases, or you get a warnign on the first try, suspension on the second. That would make it a nicer place to begin with.

I also race skateboards, and we have a forum at http://www.slalomskateboarder.com/phpBB/index.php

where users must use their REAL names to register...as a result there is a LOT less BS. Not none, but a lot less - and everyone knows exactly who the real problem people are. Most of the top racers in the world post there and as a result it is a VERY useful source of information on everything relating to the sport. Granted, it is not a "carving" or "longboard" forum, it is for racing, but still - I think it works well. I know it would be a nightmare to make all BOL's aliased members change their names at this point...maybe a line could be added under the username, with the real name in smaller print like the "Skidder", "Alpine Ace" text?

That's all I have for now. :)

-Rick Floyd

Warren, VT

[MUD]

Here is my example :www.ktmtalk.com

But I am serious, they REALLY moderate it, very little tolerance. It is also THE resource for KTM's period!

You can login as what ever you like, but if you start trouble you won't last long. Even top pros post without us knowing who they are, it is a very open minded group when it comes to input from others.

[MUD]

Here is another one:www.advrider.com

This site is for dualsport motorcycles.

They have a section called jo mamma. if a thread goes south it goes to the basement (jo mamma). It is sort of a self moderator, if you have a serious thread going and someone starts to give you a hard time, you do not want it to go into the basement, so people tend to try to keep it on task.....

One thing is Jo mamma has really only one rule, no porn. Other than that anything goes, and I mean anything....... You can start any kind of thread there you want, and let the inmates have at it. Personally I hate the place.

[yyzcanuck]

...I'm just suggesting drop the card up front and avoid the problem...

I just now realized what bothers me about your idea... It's just a bit too close to suggesting someone wear a badge to show their status or station in life. Next thing you know, Bordy and Fin will have to put a pink triangle as their signature. See what I'm saying?

I'm not immune to the 'treat people like $hit syndrome'. I don't take well to personal attacks and the exchange last season with Eaglez was a perfect example of my real world self.

A few years back I had words with another individual regarding a Burton 'race stock' board.

I yam what I yam... but I don't feel the need to wear a badge. Does that mean I need to remove my signature file?

AND... I don't believe for a minute that Alexa Loo is actually posting here. It's probably skeez rule! hehehe

[Jack M]

I just now realized what bothers me about your idea... It's just a bit too close to suggesting someone wear a badge to show their status or station in life.

Yeah, unfortunately that's pretty much what it is. Your yyzcanuck logo in your sig is basically the same thing. It identifies you as someone in the industry, not just another joe. Not that there's anything wrong with being another joe, but you have to admit it sets you apart.

Bordy is right, it is bullsh!t that a racer should have to identify him/herself as such to some people. It's also bullsh!t that I have to breathe second hand smoke from the guy in the chair in front of me on the chairlift. But that's life. Simple manners are a dying art.

[D-Sub]

I've noticed a pattern here where if a racer gets questioned or challenged, perhaps in a flippant manner, the racer gets pissed and storms out. Many times, before they leave, the racer drops the "don't you know who I am" card. Or Bordy drops it for them. That's understandable. I'm just suggesting drop the card up front and avoid the problem.

I know plenty of people think I'm a problem here, and I've been thinking about that a fair bit lately and intend to take it to heart.

There's absolutely no arguing with the fact that every single person should be treated politely at first. "Respect?" No...respect is something different, earned. Expecting someone to respect your authority when they have zero idea who you are is ridiculous. Expecting them to treat you politely is perfectly reasonable.

Tex definitely has a stick up his ass about buying and selling gear. The obsession with not posting ebay auctions, and what appears to be a desire to regulate what someone can and can't / how much they can or can't sell for is a bit over the top. I'm sure you'd acknowledge this, Tex?

That said, there is a huge amount of EGO floating through here. A few of the biggest egos I have ever run across post here, and refuse to ever consider that they might be out of line.

This is an internet forum. It is not a race forum, restricted to the best of the best. S--t talk will roll right along shop talk. The way I see it, there are a handful of people that demand respect from people who have no idea who they are, and might not even care.

I was just thinking yesterday how much I admire ski and snowboard racers simply for their ability to HAUL ASS and stay under control. I can't ride fast, can't ride steeps well, and fall apart when the snow gets hard and loud. I know damn well that there are hundreds of people out there who are better than me but that doesn't mean for a second that I see them as elevated in any way shape or form.

I was rude to two racers recently. Mort and...forgot the other guy's name. The fact that they are high-level racers has nothing to do with it. I was rude to people. Actually, what started the thing with one of them wasn't rude on my part at all. I rotated two pics and said I hate looking at sideways pics. I don't see how that is an insult but it was taken as one, and then it got worse and I got several emails calling me names, telling me Mort was dyslexic (I'm supposed to know that?)

I think I confused the deal with Mort with the one with the French Canadian rider...forgot his name...

I'm rambling. My point is, there's a balance here. Everyone deserves politeness until they prove they don't. No one should expect to "walk into a room" and expect to be admired and respected when no one knows who they are!

I don't think "newbies" are treated poorly here at all. The number of questions that gets asked over and over and over with people clearly ignoring the search function are almost always answered politely either with "please use the search function" or a rehash of what's been covered multiple times. That's pretty damn polite.

So, ultimately, it seems to come down to "Do you know who the f--k I am?" and expectations that are unrealistic.

I read the Kessler thread, and sorry SpeedRacer...you went too far. You told TEX (it's not texT, never was) he needed to get a life, couldn't ride, etc etc. How in the world would you know this? Because he stepped a little out of bounds over a board he thought was overpriced? Was it any of his business? NO, not really. Was it necessary for you to post long tirades about how much of a loser he (we) is?

It's frustrating to me because I have never been one to admire people. They're just people. Some are really good at things, and I admire those capabilities when I know what they are, and care.

Being polite has nothing to do with admiration or respect. Polite is just polite, and everyone deserves it.

That said, Jack, mods...I really think you should post an ABSOLUTELY NO CHATTER rule for classifieds. Other forums do. I know this includes me, and I'm perfectly fine with that. It irritates me to no end when people post "oohhhh, I really want that board but I can't afford it." or anything else that has NOTHING to do with buying or selling.

If you had this rule, the three most recent flair-ups would have been avoided for the most part. I might still have fixed the photos but I would have been required by the rules to not "say" anything.

I'm going to start a petition, and I think the results will be to discussion in classifieds.

[D-Sub]

I just re-read the forum rules, and I'd like others to as well. I have explicitly violated more than one, as did SpeedRacer, Mort, Bordy, the FC fella, Dave Morgan...A LOT of people! Heh...we should all be banned!

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[tex1230]

Tex definitely has a stick up his ass about buying and selling gear. The obsession with not posting ebay auctions, and what appears to be a desire to regulate what someone can and can't / how much they can or can't sell for is a bit over the top. I'm sure you'd acknowledge this, Tex?

You are absolutely right. I'm a numbers guy and if numbers don't make sense I get a little testy. I dropped the ebay thing a while ago though, right?

[D-Sub]

You are absolutely right. I'm a numbers guy and if numbers don't make sense I get a little testy. I dropped the ebay thing a while ago though, right?

HECK NO you didn't dude! You intentionally pointed it out in your "before you post for sale" !

:)

Just keep in mind that if you're not in the transaction, the numbers don't need to make sense to you (or me, or anyone but the buyer and seller.) I don't think that what you said warranted the response it got, but unfortunately I think that will be completely overlooked.

[Neil Gendzwill]

I just now realized what bothers me about your idea... It's just a bit too close to suggesting someone wear a badge to show their status or station in life. Next thing you know, Bordy and Fin will have to put a pink triangle as their signature. See what I'm saying?

Well, first off everyone should treat each other politely, period.

However...

This is a forum where technical information gets exchanged. As Billy points out, some of it is good advice and some of it is bad. If you are in the position to be looking for advice, how do you know if it is good or bad? If an experienced racer or coach signs up under a nick and posts some technical stuff that conflicts with the weekend warrior advice, how do us weekend warriors know which is right? The answer is, we don't. But if we were aware of who they are, we are going to pay much more attention. Personally, when Bordy or Phil Fell or one of the other guys I know has the goods is kind enough to drop some turning/tuning/goin' fast advice on us, I'm listening. Bruce, Sean, Chris - they've got my attention on board-building issues for sure. Rob and the other AASI/CASI bigwigs open my ears on teaching.

Going back to my martial arts experience, we sure get a ton of people who have been practicing for a few years who like to give as much advice as possible. We call them hachikyu sensei. But I pay attention to the ones I know have a few decades experience, and it's as simple as them putting a line in their profile that says so.

[D-Sub]

Yeah, but Neil...this isn't about advice or whatnot, is it? It's about attitude. And if anyone says the "weekend warriors" are the only ones with attitude, well...

I'd also add that someone who has "only been practicing for a few" years on a snowboard could easily understand the concepts and put them into practice, and be able to offer advice based on analysis and interpretation.

[yyzcanuck]

But I pay attention to the ones I know have a few decades experience, and it's as simple as them putting a line in their profile that says so.

How would one know if the line in their profile was true? For example, my profile. Would you come to me for brain surgery?

[Neil Gendzwill]

I'd also add that someone who has "only been practicing for a few" years on a snowboard could easily understand the concepts and put them into practice, and be able to offer advice based on analysis and interpretation.

Yeah, that's what the guys who have only been practicing a few years of martial arts think, too. They've got something their instructor told them, or something that works for them at their level, and conclude from that they know the whole story. Sometimes they've got useful stuff to say, and sometimes they're misguided. What I'm saying is in that case, when someone I know for a fact is 6 dan and has competed at worlds says "here's where you're wrong and why", I tend to listen to that guy. Those kind of guys aren't used to the students telling them they're wrong in person and don't take it well online.

It's the same here. If a well-qualified guy says "this is the way it is", I'm paying attention to that. If someone argues with him and he gets a little testy, I cut him some slack because I know how frustrating it is to have 10 guys who think they know argue with you when you are the guy that knows for sure.

So to me, it comes down to a) being polite and b) letting go of your ego enough to consider you could be wrong.

How would one know if the line in their profile was true? For example, my profile. Would you come to me for brain surgery?

Same way we do on my other boards - it's a small enough community, and probably someone we know, knows that guy. Just like the recent brouhaha over the Kessler - several people we trust knew that guy. People who lie about something like that are easily exposed.

[D-Sub]

It's the same here. If a well-qualified guy says "this is the way it is", I'm paying attention to that. If someone argues with him and he gets a little testy, I cut him some slack because I know how frustrating it is to have 10 guys who think they know argue with you when you are the guy that knows for sure.

Dealt with that in the electronic music scene before. Good point.

So to me, it comes down to a) being polite and b) letting go of your ego enough to consider you could be wrong.

goes both ways!

[yyzcanuck]

Neil, I agree, the community is small enough that a 'ricky racer' will be exposed. Should the onus be on those people, about to make the purchase or accept the advice, to practice their own form of due diligence in determining someones credibility? I know I do and try to do it without immediately berating or belittling them online. Maybe others could too?

Jack, I didn't put the company logo in my signature as a badge of status... it was free advertising! However, I agree, it does act as a status badge. I'm not sure if it actually lends credence to the bull**** that I post, but if it does, again, due diligence is in order.

[wavechaser]

Jack, I didn't put the company logo in my signature as a badge of status... it was free advertising! However, I agree, it does act as a status badge. I'm not sure if it actually lends credence to the bull**** that I post, but if it does, again, due diligence is in order.

We love ya Dave!