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Catek Importing Kessler


Mike T

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Polyoxymethylene (POM), also commonly known under DuPont's brand name Delrin, is an engineering plastic, a polymer with the chemical formula is -(-O-CH2-)n-. Often marketed and used as a metal substitute, Delrin is a lightweight, low-friction, and wear-resistant thermoplastic with good physical and processing properties and capable of operating in temperatures in excess of 90 degrees celsius (approx 200 degrees Fahrenheit). According to the material safety data sheet from DuPont, the material has a slight odor of formaldehyde.[1]

It is also known as polyacetal, acetal resin, polytrioxane, polyformaldehyde, and paraformaldehyde; the latter term is usually restricted to the short-chained polymer. The plastic is sold under the trade names Kepital, Celcon, Hostaform and Ultraform, the last three being copolymers. :freak3:

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Isn't plexiglas or lexan quite stiff and brittle? I would think if you want a cushioning layer, you'd want something with a little more give.

I don't think the plexiglass disks are meant to be a cushioning layer, I think the idea behind the plexiglass disks is protection of the metal topsheet from damage that could be caused by bindings.

Of course, I could be totally wrong too..... :confused:

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Bordy... hmmm When its complete I'll try to get ya the taper.. but for now.. I will use TD2 with the Purple ring.. God knows I don't pound my boards when I ride.. just tilt & Go.. I want to sip tea when Im riding..why would I want to work... so the TD's are good.. the Cateks gots so many pieces to loose it aint worth the trouble way to much work when setting up a new work in progress..

Specs are a twin tip Schtubby so I can ride rails fakie, 171cm, 20cm waist, 13m side cut ...secret Bruce taper and flex.. I shoot ya the material specs in a bit..

post-186-141842238962_thumb.jpg

post-186-141842238963_thumb.jpg

post-186-141842238966_thumb.jpg

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Bordy:

You want cool new school alpine gear? We're working on it. You know what, we have been for some time. You want to know why I spirited away that broken board at ECES? It just happened to have a prototype riser system on it.

Sophisticated plate systems (Hangl, Vist, SFlex, etc) are currently all over the place in terms of the methods utilized and intended effects. CATEK has been working diligently to get its arms around the whole thing; incidentally development on one of our candidate systems began 11 years ago. To date we have invested well over $20k in this type of advanced R&D – and $10k of that was real cold hard cash we paid for prototypes.

Simply put, development takes time, money and effort, and if consumers are frustrated with the rate of advancement, it's nothing compared to those of us who work to build the products. Jeff and I have a ton of product ideas that we're developing. If I had a magic wand and could make them all appear for the 07/08 season, believe me I would. But it doesn't work that way, and we're forced to address as many issues as we can in what we deem to be the most advantageous fashion.

The Spacers that we are selling are a very legitimate answer to an obvious need. They are a low brain cycle product that we could develop quickly and get out fast to meet the market where it is at. There may be people who aren't overly talented with a hack saw and a drill press. Some people might be alienated by Home Depot. There may be people riding metal boards who don't need the weight & complexity of a full bore riser system like the Hangl (see the image below showing the women's podium from the recent World Cup in Soelden (photo from the SG website) -- the riders are on spacers, not Hangl risers). Basically, there's a need for a simple, ready-made spacer product. We addressed that need.

That doesn't mean that we're stopping there. The Race Spacer is an excellent simple product that fills a need and fills it well. We certainly know that there are other products to be addressed, and we are working on them.

If you are disappointed with the speed of progress...please feel free to offer some constructive feedback about what you think the product needs are, and what you conceive of as the ideal solutions. We are always happy to listen to our dealers and customers.

Regards,

Scott @ CATEK

post-280-141842238968_thumb.jpg

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In regard to materials, the spacers that we are selling are machined from 5mm thick Makrolon brand polycarbonate (www.makrolon.com).

We briefly tested a number of plexiglass/acrylic materials, but none were suitable as a spacer -- they were prone to cracking and stress failures.

The Makrolon spacers are far superior in strength, and resiliency. We didn't have a single failure in a full season of testing.

Scott @ CATEK

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lexan, the crazy strong stuff that looks like plexiglass, there are a ton of brand names but you want the stuff you can whack with a hammer and it only scratches, then while at the hardware store pick up some longer screws too

I want to see a real solution to these issues that Bordy brings up too, so far hangls are the best thing going but not for everyone for a multitude of reasons

weight

cost

needing to heli coil most boards to get them on

the f2 plate is probably a good first step but I feel that Jeff can do it better than F2

I have more to write but I am about to go out so I'll post more later

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With the small number of alpine boarders in the world, I am surprised that we get the products that we do get. These companies aren't global empires with boatloads of cash and buildings full of lawyers, that can make meaningful new product offerings every 9 months. Not only that, the testing, certification and liability red tape these companies go through with the yearly revenues they generate is almost crippling to small companies. Look at what is going on at Bomber. Hopefully, the litigation favours Fin otherwise we may have even less choice in this small market.

Most people on this site (myself included) perceive that this sport is big because we love it so much. It is a niche market that isn't going to make any company rich anytime soon. Why do you think Burton got out? The accountants looked at the numbers and said "Small market with slow or no growth, bad ROI, lets move on".

How many REAL, hardcore, making it to the Olympics, type people are on this site or out carving turns anyway? Not very many. If Catek needed a simple board protector for its Kessler partnership, that is a great addition to their line. Hope they sell out like the BTS did for Fin. Same said for their Kessler boards. It will show there is a market for high end boards on this side of the pond being actually bought by people, not just given out to sponsored racers for free. Most of the people that have them are in the race crowd (free boards) or in the retired with lots of money (no chance of making it to the Olympics) crowd. Otherwise they are bought up USED from the racers by the rest of us.

Here's to a great season of riding the superior equipment we have chosen!!

D. :biggthump

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In regard to materials, the spacers that we are selling are machined from 5mm thick Makrolon brand polycarbonate (www.makrolon.com).

We briefly tested a number of plexiglass/acrylic materials, but none were suitable as a spacer -- they were prone to cracking and stress failures.

The Makrolon spacers are far superior in strength, and resiliency. We didn't have a single failure in a full season of testing.

Scott @ CATEK

I just read up on Makolon. It's the stuff they make CDs and DVDs out of. Ever try to break a CD? You really can't. You have to cut it. Makes perfect sense to use that material as a spacer. Hey, maybe I'll just stack some CDs under my binding.

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I hadn't even thought about a problem with bindings until I read this thread.

Curious as well. :confused:

Is this an issue on boards that have a topsheet over the metal layer? Is it an issue with TD2's and the soft E-ring? Is it an issue with TD2's if a suspension kit is used? Inquiring minds want to know!

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Just to clarify it for you guys:

Plexiglas is acrylic: hard and brittle

Lexan is polycarbonate: softer but not brittle

Polycarbonate is easily scratched, but it will not crack or shatter like acrylic. I've seen some pieces of acrylic fly across a room and almost disfiguring someone when it shattered when cut with a circular saw. Polycarbonate is used in water bottles (Nalgene) and glasses, both sport and safety. Polycarbonate is also used when you want a transparent surface (like a shield) that will not shatter when hit by flying objects and such. And polycarbonate costs maybe 3 times (I'll have to check) as much as acrylic.

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Custom Shred Schtubby Nose and tail nose lifted a little more than previous with slight tail lift.. The rest is Brucey magic... will know more when the snow falls..... IN OHIO.. doh! :smashfrea The previous pics are from the topsheet... hmm debating to wait till its done or just show the graphics...

hmmmmm...????

right said Shred

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Bordy:

You want cool new school alpine gear? We're working on it. You know what, we have been for some time. You want to know why I spirited away that broken board at ECES? It just happened to have a prototype riser system on it.

Sophisticated plate systems (Hangl, Vist, SFlex, etc) are currently all over the place in terms of the methods utilized and intended effects. CATEK has been working diligently to get its arms around the whole thing; incidentally development on one of our candidate systems began 11 years ago. To date we have invested well over $20k in this type of advanced R&D – and $10k of that was real cold hard cash we paid for prototypes.

Simply put, development takes time, money and effort, and if consumers are frustrated with the rate of advancement, it's nothing compared to those of us who work to build the products. Jeff and I have a ton of product ideas that we're developing. If I had a magic wand and could make them all appear for the 07/08 season, believe me I would. But it doesn't work that way, and we're forced to address as many issues as we can in what we deem to be the most advantageous fashion.

The Spacers that we are selling are a very legitimate answer to an obvious need. They are a low brain cycle product that we could develop quickly and get out fast to meet the market where it is at. There may be people who aren't overly talented with a hack saw and a drill press. Some people might be alienated by Home Depot. There may be people riding metal boards who don't need the weight & complexity of a full bore riser system like the Hangl (see the image below showing the women's podium from the recent World Cup in Soelden (photo from the SG website) -- the riders are on spacers, not Hangl risers). Basically, there's a need for a simple, ready-made spacer product. We addressed that need.

That doesn't mean that we're stopping there. The Race Spacer is an excellent simple product that fills a need and fills it well. We certainly know that there are other products to be addressed, and we are working on them.

If you are disappointed with the speed of progress...please feel free to offer some constructive feedback about what you think the product needs are, and what you conceive of as the ideal solutions. We are always happy to listen to our dealers and customers.

Regards,

Scott @ CATEK

You were not on any special riser system I saw the board you were riding that day.... the only riser system you or Jeff even Knew about at that point where the crappy little metal and polymer soft boot binding lifters with the 2 plates and the corner mounts. Why would you say such a

thing?

Even the guys on the world cup where just starting to discover why boards where breaking and no one but the Shock bros and SG had been working on Hangles.

At that point you and Jeff only new about metal board from what JJ was telling you when his coilers kept breaking and Bruce was really getting upset about why. JJ and Fuzzy spent all types of time tring to use more materail under the binding to stop boards from breaking mostly a larger thicker pad.

Mean while you were still out on your own why JJ and Fuzzy where tring there hardest to make it all work since they where at the time your biggest name riders. Morresy also was up and coming at that point as was also on your binding. He too had tons of stuff under his binding. When I was in europe for the europa cup the following year was when the plates really started to make a apperance. Most credit Louie for using displacment plates on his tropical tube but when metal boards kept breaking the same way it made tons of sence to use a modifided Louie plate to stop it from happing. Soon Thedo discovered we could just use Plex from home depot and soon everyone in the US on Metal boards was running them. It was also around this time we saw the hangle plate on the WC and the new nose was realeased to team Kessler riders and was hidden out of view intill the games.

I first saw the hangle plate under Jewels feet right before the games, he was the first in the US to rock it. Hans was the first cat to see the value of the lighter lift and started keeping the girls on it, his plate is alot like the kessler plate. Simple and lite. Not like your "Low brain cycle" prodect you guys just copied from every one on the plexplate....sure you'll sell them beacuase with your binding on a metal board the chance of the board breaking is high with out it.

Thanks for taking the time to educate me about Cateks R&D its really a shame you guys have been doing all this R&D but your binding for sale has stayed the same.........only fixing the obvious problems I and everyone who had ridden cateks hard had with them. When I had asked you some of the same questions in the past you told me I was wrong there where no issues with the binding. Funny how the OS2 adressed several issue I and others had at the time.

Seem like after 11 years and 20G you would have some thing better. And should have been ahead of the plate revalution not coping what racers have been using for years............. Plus alot of stuff really should and would have found its way under JJ feet years ago and it never did? Are you sure you not just trying pull some wool over my eyes? Cuz well I am pretty hip in the alpine scene and just can't see any of the things your saying to well line up when it comes to 11 years of plate work and 20g spent just fills alot like smoke up my assss........Plus I just haven't seen the RD under racers feet perhaps you have a super top seceret training team. Some SICK free riders in maine or something. But who are they and why isn't the binding more race freindly??

I also want to comment about your obvious inablitiy to handle criticism on a puplic forum.

Shame you acted like a great big baby..... you know what I mean.... Why in the world would you act as such. I am so tempted to post the responses here puplicly but know how embarsing it would be for catek.

Why would I share any Ideas with a person who made the threats you and Jeff did to me and hardbooter...... so weak..........

It hard to see you as part of the alpine brootherhood after that.

I am glad you make bindings and kick down to the cause.

Buy very dissapointed to receive frantic phone calls, and threats from Jeff becuase well it sounds like you threw a hissy fit. Shame just a shame.

I write reveiws about hard boot gear if you can't except my view as my own and you need to drag work into it then thats just sad, and maybe part of the reason you guys at Catek really need to step up your design. If you really have 11 years of plate technology then drop it on us. But why is it I haven't seen any thing about it. Sounds hooky??????

Your actions have done nothing more then Jade your candor. After your outlandish claims at ECES ( expesally about surf- rodz)and your disapointing impression at ECES when you where kind enough to talk down to myself and several others when we expresed ligitimite questions about flaws in the prodect when used on metal and your obvious inability to even consider what you where hearing as accurate and true, even better first hand from a competing athlete at the time. Then your actions concerning comments to a customer concering saftey... you reaction following my first post on your competators puplic forum...... Then to threaten the only dealer who is pimping your gear right next to Fin at a the WTC, SES and year round on the west coast via a demo fleet. The fact that I Turned screws on Cateks under the bomber tent at several SES while you and Jeff stayed home and I pimped your prodect just fires me up more. When you go to Scott firestones site and see the setup instruction for the Os2. (Since we were receiving comment about why your insrutions where vague and people were ommiting steps while following your instructions) You have me to thank for giving Scott the info for set up and standing next to him while shooting the photos. I don't even know how often I say Catek in a given day and after I post my personal veiw of your press realease on a public forum you go crying to Jeff.......and threaten to pull your prodect......and to sue Hardbooter for slander???????You really should be thankful we have been tring so hard to sell it. Perhaps you should have taken some of the money you spent on R&D and really gone out snowboarding with the folks who freaking matter.... Not your own little community you have becaume so comfortable with. How many people ride your binding on the world cup now????? Is it that your still not happy with were the prodect is at currently and you got so emotional becuase I agree....and pointed it out.

If I decide to still carry Cateks you should be damn happy that you have someone like me to sell you prodect. I have had enough experance with you personally to over look the issues I have with you, and still sell your prodect over the years. Thanks to Jeffs commetment to the sport ( i still have a par of year one cateks) You on the other hand seem to think you should make this some sort of soap opera.. With drama and threats??????? Weak.

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Wow, I had no idea *this* would happen when I started this thread. I simply thought it was news that the alpine community might find interesting. I am bummed that what was intended as simply an attempt to share news has evolved into this. I had no intention of providing a battlefield for two well respected members of our community.

I believe in free speech as much as the next guy so I am not deleting this thread event though as the thread starter it is my right to do so. However I've requested that the thread be locked in hopes that flames be taken to a more private forum.

Peace...

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