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The Ugly Side of Snowboarding


utahcarver

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YEAH thats about all jibbers can do is slide. Anyone can slide on a plastic box.

Have you actually done that stuff? When you add in stuff like spinning on, spinning off, nose press / tail press, etc... jibbing is harder than carving IMO. And it hurts more when you fall. I've done just enough to know that it's not for me.

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Have you actually done that stuff? When you add in stuff like spinning on, spinning off, nose press / tail press, etc... jibbing is harder than carving IMO. And it hurts more when you fall. I've done just enough to know that it's not for me.

Yeah, I've done that before. It is hard. Try it with a narrow, forward angled stance. A lot harder before they simplified it and replaced all the single piped bars with foot wide boxes though. The first "rail" we had at my hill (well we used to slide fallen trees and logs out of bounds and the occational ski rack) was a telephone pole they stuck into the slope that came out like a cannon. It wasn't until 2 years ago we got the "boxes". One thing I'll say about park riders is the majority are lost when it comes to doing any of their park tricks out on the rest of the slope. They tend to ultimately dependent on that perfectly transitioned table top hit and nice wide box to balance on. Now falling on a single bar rainbow rail, that hurts!!!

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once again, Divebummer stirrin' up some good comedy.:lol:

Has anyone actually ridden with DB ? I know some of the Loveland guys did.

I'm just wondering if the kid has any alpine skillz at all.

Sounds like "that guy" in the lodge going on and on, rather loudly, how he was tearing up the hill all day:freak3:

Many unknowing snow sliders see alpine as ice dancing until they actually see a real trencher lay down some impressive arcs.

I say, the more jib monkeys in the terrain park, the better. I DO respect the jibbers that have skillz and practice hard and throw down, if that's your thang....enjoy.:eplus2:

I relish the moment when some kid asks about my gear and says it's badass. :D:biggthump:cool:

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I relish the moment when some kid asks about my gear and says it's badass. :D:biggthump:cool:

I had one such moment this sunday on the lift at Mt.Snow. Sat down with three park riders from PA and they were very inquisitive about carving and super cool, positive, open-minded riders. It was totally cool. Whenever jibbers/park riders ask me about my board, I make sure to ask them some stuff about park riding. I really dig the way that most people at the mountain take the diversity of snow-sliding methods for granted, in a non-adversarial way. It seems to me that there are still a few pissed off skiers who whine about this and that but for the most part, everyone gets along and I think that's pretty cool.

I have to see that movie.

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I have to see that movie.

Some of those kids really get a kick when they figger out you're an "OG".

Been riding snowboards for over 20 years, yup. I remember when.......:rolleyes:

Almost went to the screener for "Semi Pro" last night but bagged it due to snow, rain, lethargy.

Will Ferrell has cranked out some movies that are up there with Caddyshack IMHO. The formula is getting old but I still laugh out loud.Walk HArd was good, too.

Nothing like falling asleep to a really funny movie after a day on the slopes.

Beers , good grub, pop in a DVD and get under the big blanky :lurk::sleep:

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

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If you are using a snowboard and sliding down a hill it is snowboarding.

That's the attitude I can't stand about this message board. There is far too much terrain park bashing calling it "gimmicky". To me, the mere thought of you clowns attempting to carve 360 is alot more gimmicky and lame than terrain park riding.

Here is some attitude for ya. Every bad experience I have had with snowboarders in the last ten years is from some baggy pants wearing, duck riding, ass monkey who should be segregated from the general population for bad manners if nothing else. I don't really give a **** about "core" or not. Or how many rodeo 540 nose grinds you can do, or what a kinky rail you ride - if you ain't got manners and don't think you need to be safe, stay the **** off my hill.

Just so you know I don't bash park monkeys at all. I think they should all stay there, hopefully crashing under a blind jump and then having 20 other guys who didn't spot their landing either land on top of them.

:eplus2::eplus2::eplus2::eplus2::eplus2::eplus2:

If they want to play nice and act like human beings instead of gangsters then they are welcome to play in my sandbox. Most of this negative bias comes from snowboarders who didn't spot their landings when riding and either hit, caused to crash and/or really hurt people that I really care about. Including one of our local ski legends who got hit in a beginner area by a hit and run snowboarder dropping off a lip to the side of the run - he was 82 at the time. Took him six months and multiple surgeries that he had to agonize through before an infection related to the surgery killed him.

:angryfire:angryfire:angryfire:angryfire:angryfire:angryfire:angryfire

Takes just one guy to ****ing ruin it for everyone.

Shoot 'em all and let God sort 'em out.

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the lack of mountain ettiquete is the issue, wether the wannabe gangsta's are on skis, boards, blades, or tubes:smashfrea

I've seen twin tip skiers throw the same attitude. The absolute worse thing there is, is the drunk guy in carharts on rentals standing at the top of the hill talking to his buddy spitting chew on the slope...

Billy Ray: "Hey Bo!!! Which way you goin?!"

Bo: [also in carharts... only camo] "I'm goin' down!!! I'm goin' STRAIGHT DOWN!!!"

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By the way, don't discredit the ability of park riders....ever.
There's some talented kids, no doubt. But here's the deal - I can turn and stop, but not jump. Lots of kids can jump, but not turn and stop. You can argue whether it takes more skill to do one or the other, but the turning and stopping skills are the ones that are necessary in order to maintain mountain etiquette. Kids who have no problem hucking the gap also have no problem straightlining out of control outside of the park. That's where I have a problem with the ability of park riders - where their control is a mismatch for their cojones.
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It seems to me that there are still a few pissed off skiers who whine about this and that but for the most part, everyone gets along and I think that's pretty cool.

I actually got some compliments from a cool skier today riding a pretty tough bump run today. He asked if I used to ski a lot of moguls. No... don't really know how to ski. He was a really good middle aged skier, but he thought it was really cool :o

the lack of mountain ettiquete is the issue, wether the wannabe gangsta's are on skis, boards, blades, or tubes

So true. I always defend snowboarding to any uptight skiers by pointing out that it's really just the young kids - and yes, it so happens that a lot of young kids ride snowboards.

Thing is... the media and corporate America is not what it was 20 years ago. It's had the strongest influence on kids (on purpose, and due to their impressionability). So this negative view of snowboarding is compounded by the fact that the 17 yr old boy on a snowboard is *statistically more likely* to be an overt A-hole than he was 20 years ago - when that kid was on skis.

So kids will be kids, but that doesn't change the fact that Burton (and others) play to this to make money and escalate the problem. Not that everyone doesn't do it, but not everyone plays the "I'm more laid back than you....." game while they are doing it.

Oh my god, I'm too young to be a grumpy old man! :argue:

________

Depakote class action

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All of the Jibbers will turn into carvers when they get over 30:D I myself have been launching kickers for years and like to jump off any natural features that I can find. After starting with tricks and stuff found that it was more fun, TO ME, to go fast and ride powder. Eventually saw some hardbooters on the hill and thought that it looked fun. Don't see them very often though. Finally got carving gear and I'm now having a blast. I ride my all mtn board on about everything except the terrain park now. Not many people have ever seen carving and 90+% of snowboarders don't know hard boot snowboarding exist. Face it, spinning tricks are the money makers right now and it will remain popular until it doesn't make the corporate interests any more money. Saw the same thing happen with skateboarding in the early 80's. Doesn't mean that the riders aren't skilled and that it's easy to jib. Just a lot more people doing it. As far as the teenage creepsters, they are just being teenagers and are doing what is "cool". Because it is hip to be a gangsta.

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If you don't think my analogy is accurate, please feel free to attempt to give Mickey Mouse bunny ears....

As I already explained, your Mickey Mouse analogy is different (the reasons are several, one of which I already outlined) and prosecutors in Vermont or Utah might consider snowboarding at MRG, DV, or Alta a form of trespass, criminal mischief, etc.

Furthermore, as I already stated, should a a terrible accident occur, as I earlier explained, Burton could quite possibly be held liable for it and deservedly so.

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As I already explained, your Mickey Mouse analogy is different (the reasons are several, one of which I already outlined) and prosecutors in Vermont or Utah might consider snowboarding at MRG, DV, or Alta a form of trespass, criminal mischief, etc.

Furthermore, as I already stated, should a a terrible accident occur, as I earlier explained, Burton could quite possibly be held liable for it and deservedly so.

And like I said, if a group of people were incouraged to go into Disney to specifically break the rules it's the same thing. If a person who was not as respectful as myself would have been grabbed a physical altercation could have easily occured, particularly if the person was against Disney and doing that as a protest stunt. I really don't think your claim of law violation has a leg to stand on. All the resort and the authorities would be able to do is to have the boarders leave.

If someone was injured by one of the boarders they probably would be able to have a law suit, but same as if Burton told people to break any other rule at these resorts. The fact they were snowboarding doesn't make it illegal.

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Young kids skiing with attitude...hmmm...what was the term?

Hot-dog? Something like that...I had a similar conversation with a skiier when we were both nursing broken ankles and waiting for the 2005 Superbowl. She disagreed with me until about 10 loud obnoxious skiiers came into the bar....

Then she gave me that look....:rolleyes:

My favorite nonstereotypical thing to do is...I will fix your bindings. skiier or rider!

When we go up to CO in March, there's a bunch of Texans there. Although I live in Houston, I was not born here and cannot lay claim to the title, according to the native borns. (I prefer to call myself a transplanted Nebraskan anyway) All their gear is rental crap that, by March, is falling apart.

I can't tell you the looks I get when I take out a tool and tighten little Johnny's binding strap or push down little Suzy's snow brake and help her put her boot in her bindings correctly.....

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Again. My problem with my fellow alpine riders is that alot of you act like snobs and treat park riders as if they are inferior to you.

Snobbish and superior like your signature identifying eurocarving as for women and racecarving for men? ;)

I have respect for a lot of freestyle riders, softboot all-mountain riders, and carvers alike, and personally, I believe that most carvers feel the same way. At the SES, we were mostly all watching in awe as the kids landed switch 900s cleanly off the monstrous jumps at Buttermilk that were left over from the X-Games. It was amazing, and there was plenty enough love to go around.

Hell, for me a guy doesn't even have to be good at riding for me to respect them. Coming from a large urban center, I think anybody willing to put up with a 3 hour drive and a crush of crowds in order to go outside and pursue something that they enjoy doing is generally enough for me, unless they're being jerks in the lift line or actively attempting to annoy people by spraying snow on innocents or running over people's skis or whatever. They get even more respect from me if they left the city so they could live in the ski town so they wouldn't have to put up with the drive anymore.

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I also would like to leave a few 360's in the terrain park.

I also have nothing against Pot smokers, drinkers.. (I would lose like 95% of my friends....) I just don't like it when people just commandeer a gondola for their own use without regard to others in there. Like a majority rules- type of thing without regard for the minority.

I see it happen everywhere.

As I write this there are two bongs on the table in front of me. In Vail .... I'm having a Heineken

________

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I think S. Oreccio has made some good points on this topic, which seems to surface constantly on BOL.

I used to be an FS "hater." Now I enjoy watching them; if, for nothing else, some of the wipeouts are spectacular.

It's an age thing. It really is. I'm approaching 30 of I don't know many guys whose bodies would even hold up to some of the impacts they take. Being "gangster" is a problem with youth in general. Hey, it's cool to appear uneducated apparently. It just translates into boarding. I will say, however, that bandanas a la "bank robber" style DO keep you warm- better than some full face balaclavas.

I know there are people on this board that are probably secretly jealous of the FS'ers. The good ones get all the attention, and of course you have to have balls to do some of that crazy stuff. I've been meaning to try it, just haven't gotten around to it- though I'm not eager to launch any huge jumps.

Weren't most of us obnoxious teens at one point?

Attitude changes (being more open) would help both alpine snobs and obnoxious /disrespectful FS'ers

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I will say, however, that bandanas a la "bank robber" style DO keep you warm- better than some full face balaclavas.

Plus they look cool. And as much as I like to pretend I am all about function over form on the mountain, the fact is, I think it's fun to dress badass, even if a gentleman (or woman) lies beneath all that flagrant badassery. That's why I ride with a pair of military issue firefighters pants ... they look cool.

Attitude changes (being more open) would help both alpine snobs and obnoxious /disrespectful FS'ers

I couldn't agree more, I really try to be a nice, level-headed chiller kind of guy ... but the fact is--I can be incredibly judgmental and elitist at times--there's no way around that, as much as I hate to admit it. You've always gotta be willing to accept that your presumptions about people are likely to be wrong, and be willing to correct yourself when they are. I don't mind that I am a bit judgmental, because when I discover myself to be incorrect I permit myself to accept being pleasantly surprised.

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Utah Criminal Code:

Commercial terrorism -- Penalties. (1) A person is guilty of a misdemeanor if he enters or remains unlawfully on the premises of or in a building of any business with the intent to interfere with the employees, customers, personnel, or operations of a business through any conduct that does not constitute an offense listed under Subsection (2).

(Subsection 2 omitted as it does not apply, the snowboarding would call into the above section as it would be considered an attempt to interfere with business operations.)

Criminal Trespass (1) As used in this section, "enter" means intrusion of the entire body.

(2) A person is guilty of criminal trespass if, under circumstances not amounting to burglary as defined in Section (numbers omitted) a violation of Section (number omitted) regarding commercial terrorism:

(a) he enters or remains unlawfully on property and:

(i) intends to cause annoyance or injury to any person or damage to any property, including the use of graffiti as defined in Section (number omitted)

As previously noted, since the lift ticket would have been purchased under false pretenses, there would have been no true meetings of the minds as the rider's sole intention was deceive the owner to gain access to the mountain so he could use the slopes in a manner he knew was not permitted by the land owner. Thus, access to the slopes could be considered unlawful due to the rider's deception.

Thus, in Utah, the rider could quite possibly be charged with either Commercial Terrorism or Criminal Trespass, depending on how a prosecutor read the statutes.

Meanwhile, Burton would be the corporation encouraging the illegal activity in Utah. |Haven't bothered with the Vermont statutes yet :)

All of that said ... I doubt that MRG, DV, or Alta would bother getting law enforcement involved. Not worth the hassle.

Indeed, as noted in Marty Basch's December 13, 2007, Boston Globe Article,

--- --- ---

A Mad River Glen video shot last year shows a trio of skiers donning jackets and ties, paying for lift tickets, taking the lift, and then changing to snowboards hidden in the woods before riding down the mountain by the base area.

"We're trying to take the high road with it," said Mad River Glen president Jamey Wimble. "We know it will happen at some point over the season. If they want to go to that effort, we will embrace them, congratulate them, and let them go on their way."

"We figure a couple of people will try it," Wimble said. "If we get hordes coming in, then it will be a little bit of a problem."

(snip)

"The only thing about this is on Jake's side," said Wimble. "If anything, he hardened the fact more as to why we don't want snowboarders here."

--- --- --

I can also say that, at MRG, over the years snowboarders have been known to sneak in at dawn or dusk and grab runs when the mountain is closed. Due to the small number of people that have ever bothered to do it, MRG has never really cared. (In fact, the exact quote from Friedman to me was ... "We don't care.")

Nonetheless, if someone gets hurt as a result of this publicity stunt, the blood will be on Burton's hands and the money will come out of their coffers.

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The 360 carve..... Does it take some skill? Sure, maybe some.. But so does the great heralded sports of male cheerleading and Brian Boitano ice dancing! While these amazing, gravity defying feats of perceived 'expression' may be impressive to "some", it doesn't mean that its impressive to "most" hence the reason why there are more people, in this example, men, choosing to playing football or ice hockey and not running to purchase lederhosen. Do you see the connection or do I need to spell it out?

So to back-up your statement, and agree with you, "A LOT fewer people can carve a 360 than ride in the terrain park"? Absolutely sir! by choice!

To some capacity, alot of 'jibbers' are one-dimensional and iit s not the way I choose to ride, but its certainly not wrong or not fun, or doesn't take skill.....The unique thing that I struggle to understand is that the very same argument could be made about many people on this site who bash park riding, or pipe riding. Listen to yourselves sometime, as much as i LOVE to carve, and do it daily, and have mucho respect for people that 'get it', riders that simply snowboard to 'carve' on groomers all day are WAY more one-dimensional than park riders or freeriders. Is it bad to only carve? Nope, its a hell of a lot of fun! One dimensional? Absolutely. [this statement does not apply to riders that CAN do it all, but unfortunately there are many who CANT]

[edit: one more point. Freestyle or "skateboarding on snow", as someone called it, has been around in our sport for ALOT longer than hardbooting or "modern-day freecarving", so the statement that "skateboarding on snow = not snowboarding" is fairly ignorant since freestyle snowboarding can be traced very-near to the sports inception. Find me a photo of a hardbooter, euro-carving prior this photo and I'll gladly retract this statement. This isnt even the earliest document of halfpipe riding, its the only one I could find online... The Standard Films "Tahoe, The Early Days" segment has photos dating back t0 1979.

kidwell-newspic.jpg

I first tried a carveing setup to learn how to ride plates and hardboots on a splitboard and stuck with it.

Fact. There has been 14 deaths in the backcountry in BC this year,one witnessed. Thats not very lederhosen like ,is it?

Fact. I don't like being refered as a "retard who doesn't wear snowboard boots" in the lift line.

I respect people with skills in all aspects of snowboarding.What WE don't respect is immature behavior who have no social skills in public.

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If you are using a snowboard and sliding down a hill it is snowboarding.

That's the attitude I can't stand about this message board. There is far too much terrain park bashing calling it "gimmicky". To me, the mere thought of you clowns attempting to carve 360 is alot more gimmicky and lame than terrain park riding.

Yeah I guess i have "issues" when somebody calls me a clown :( and puts a skirt :eek: on one (of the many styles) that I like to embrace. Why do you need to tell a certain segment of the carving community that they ride like a girl. Or a skirt wearing guy. :confused: I mean what are you trying to say? And how is it not a disservice to women and carvers alike. I guess that's the attitude I can't stand.

If you don't like the message board then why bother. Just a bunch of elitist gimmicky carvers talking about carving circles in the snow. Who needs it?

Just in case you didn't notice the forum you are posting to is called "Carving Community". Nobody here but us clowns.

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I also would like to leave a few 360's in the terrain park.

Whiskey has these for $153 NEW right now ($379 retail)decent sidecut,looks like.

Burton cracks me up, a park board made to look like a skateboard.

It IS what it IS.

Back in the day, I knew guys at Stratton that would just hike that icey halfpipe ALL DAY.:lurk: nothing wrong with that.

Check out the size 13 Swiss race boots in the rail slide on the Canyon 181:biggthump

JG, when in Vail, try some Tommyknocker or a Fat Tire......HeinieCAN ?

http://www.tommyknocker.com/ourBeer.html

post-123-141842251858_thumb.jpg

post-123-14184225186_thumb.jpg

post-123-141842251861_thumb.jpg

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I love technology.

It has created a world where peaceful coexistance is no longer possible, because I can watch your video on YouTube and immediately decry it, and you, as gay.

In the dark ages, nobody knew what anybody was up to. It was the same principle that allowed wars to kill millions. No CNN in the 40's.

In the Absinthe production "Optimistic?" there is a segment featuring Mark Frank Montoya literally whiterooming everyone he sees on the mountain. I have to admit, I laughed my sac off. It was funny as ****, but terrible on so many levels. The way they shot it was clever... Wait in the park until some gaper snowplowed or sideslipped in front of a feature and SLASH! they're in the whiteroom. It was, however, edited to look like he was just cruising the mountain, spraying everyone he came across.

When I wathched this a few more times, I knew it was going to be a problem. Now, of course, it's the hottest thing out there. On the Burton site, some of the poacher kids are doing this. Is Burton responsible? I don't know, but they sure don't mind hanging themselves out there, in my opinion.

Earlier, someone commented that media has turned kids into *******s. That's true. Some of our biggest national heroes are *******s. If they aren't heroes, they're usually rich, otherwise we wouldn't know about them, because the poor are not worth the digital storage space.

Being an ******* can also be seen as one of the greatest things a child can aspire to becoming. Through time have we as a species found out that our friends laugh the hardest when we can come up with some sarcastic, cutting way of gurning someone. This has taken schoolyard bullying into the mainstream. It seems as though most people in my generation never grew out of it. It sure is easier to take it into later life when you can do it on the computer, safe in your anonimity (unless you use your real name).

Bottom line here is: It's not going to get any better.

The upside? You can still do what you like on the mountain without fear of oppression. If you are cool, even in the face of abuse, you will continue on your way without issue. If you don't care then it's no problem. You go back to carving and they'll go back to doing whatever it was they were doing. If you should accidentally plow into them on the mountain later, just blame it on MFM... They have to respect that.

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