Jump to content

Riding hard boots on a freeride board


Ernie00
 Share

Recommended Posts

I got my hands on a nice 168 all mountain freeride board and I was wondering if I should try to ride it with my hard boots ? Last time I tried my soft boots it was ok but never close to the comfort I have in my AF600.

So is ther advantages or disadvantages or doing so ?

Thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 53
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

ehh, it works but when in pow hardboots lack allot feel that makes pow so damn yummy

it works but not much more

if you have some super soft three buckle boots and some gushy bindings like burton it's a DECENT way to go about it but for low angles and wide boards softies rule it, you just need the right binding and boot........

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ehh, it works but when in pow hardboots lack allot feel that makes pow so damn yummy

it works but not much more

if you have some super soft three buckle boots and some gushy bindings like burton it's a DECENT way to go about it but for low angles and wide boards softies rule it, you just need the right binding and boot........

The main problem is that hardboots aren't made for low angles.

Take a board not as wide like a swallowtail with say 24cm waist or below to get good results in my opinion.

:argue::smashfrea:freak3::flamethro

I respectfully reserve the right to completely disagree.

With my Burton Fires ( race boot not very soft) I ride at about 30 front and back on my 173 Canyon which some may not consider to be low angles, but coming off of some of my carve boards it feels like I am riding duck. Oh yeah - I love it. I have never had the feel, touch, power and comfort in softies that I get from my hard boots. And I can still make a decent trench on the groomed when I get there.

I also ride plates on my Frontier 185 ( about 40-45 front and back so nothing extreme there) and a Burton Air something that I mostly use for teaching.

Try it - don't even think twice. Without having specific knowledge of your boots flex I know they must be softer than the Fires.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I respectfully reserve the right to completely disagree.

Yup, me too. I learnt on hard boots (ski boots) with mellow angles. If you've got the gear, give it a shot.

Powder and hard boots: done to death here, but for me it's like this... when I have my lovely comfortable boots on, I forget all about them and it's just me and the snow. It *is* about feel, but if you're fretting over your boots then you don't have the right boots.

North Americans tend to think of hard gear as somehow unsuitable for powder. I'm reminded of some US industry chap who saw me ride powder and commented that I wasn't at all rigid/ stiff/ uncomfortable (or some such words). He'd just realized that what he thought he knew about hard boots wasn't true. In back-country snow I don't think you can tell much difference between a competent soft and hard rider. In fact that's also true of on piste.

I see people with uncomfortable boots: they undo them when they stop riding. I often find myself at chucking out time still wearing the things, just because I forget about them once they're locked and loaded.

I do remember to take them off in summer however.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Same here. Ride the SKI boots (Dalbello CarveX, equivalent of Head Stratos) on everything. Enjoy the pow in them. Great on 4807, 3800, Tanker. I generally don't like too low angles, so I ride with ~45/40 with a bit of underhang, which is probably good thing in softer stuff. Easy to lend straight jumps of the terrain, too. Less chances to injure your ankles. Easier and quicker to get in/out your bindings.

On the down side, it is easier to injure tib/fib on hardboots. Also, hard to stand up on the heel edge in deeper snow.

As I don't ride rails/jumps, I don't even touch my Burton Drivers and twintip board anymore...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

+ 1 on what Boris said.

My ski-moutaineering boots have been my mainstay for all of my riding since 1990 - I just upgraded to a pair of Oxygen racing boots four years ago.

Boards from 159-185cm, Swallowtails, All-mountain directionals, split boards, backcountry, freeride on decks from twin tips to full on race decks, slalom gates and even for ice climbing, one pair will do the job, if you know what to do with them.

About the only compromise I have found is that with stance angles above 35 degrees, it is tough to ride and jump fakie in hardboots on a twin-tip.

It's like the old saying, "Beware the man who has only one gun- it means he really practices with it and knows what he's doing".

George

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I got a used pair of Raichle Flexion from E-bay early spring. I'll give it try next season. I've read a lot good things about this good old ski boots and highly recommended for carving boards in case you don't have a good pair of hardboots like me.

cheers,

ruwi

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I got a used pair of Raichle Flexion from E-bay early spring. I'll give it try next season. I've read a lot good things about this good old ski boots and highly recommended for carving boards in case you don't have a good pair of hardboots like me.

cheers,

ruwi

ski boots suck, in particular with the newer boards even snowboard specific boots are on the stiff side.

I know a few people here are gonna chime in and say they ride in ski boots or Chris Karol does but that's beside the point, if ski boots were better there'd be no snowboard specific hard boots and even if there were and ski boots were better most of us would ride them, IMHO you're better off in anchient beat up raichle 123s that in any ski boot.

you CAN make ski boots work with a ton of dremel work, the right boot and a bad ass boot fitter but from the above post it's obvious you're not in the posistion to do that.

Don't take what I wrote the wrong way, it's just that a boot that's too stiff is a real bitch to deal with unless you've already done a ton of work with boots already. Also, ski boot are too ****ing long anyway, like riding in a snowboard boot three sizes bigger

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I got my hands on a nice 168 all mountain freeride board and I was wondering if I should try to ride it with my hard boots ? Last time I tried my soft boots it was ok but never close to the comfort I have in my AF600.

So is ther advantages or disadvantages or doing so ?

Thanks

For general purpose, mostly on piste, all mountain riding, I prefer hardboots and softer plate bindings on an older Rad Air freeride board.

Advantages: 1. If your hardboots are dialed in -foot comfort. 2. You can still carve decent turns when the opportunity presents itself. 3. You can work on technique in less than optimum snow/crowd conditions due to the generally slower speeds required and more forgiving interface. 4. It's an easy swap after charging early groomers into an afternoon cruise setup -no boot change required.

Cons: 1. Don't overzealously weight the nose going into turns (Definitely self-critiqueing). 2. Even a softer hard setup can be too stiff (for me, at least) in tight, bumpy, steep trees. 3. In powder, I greatly prefer softies (and a 4807) because I want a soft touch and ankle flexion for turns and tend to overpower things when in hardboots. Some guys on hardboots use a lot of underhang to mitigate this but I just like softies for powder (even if they do hurt my feet.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ski boots suck,

Well, depending how you ride and what you want from your boot... Sucking part could be applied to majority of snowboard specific boots when the quality, predictabillity of flex, and up-to-date design are concerned. Not even to mention that they are highly overpriced for what they are. If I wanted to ride in sloppy mess, I might just as well use the soft boots...

Generalization "ski boots are too stiff, too long and not suitable for snowbaording" comes from mixing all the ski boots in the equation and from inexperienced people picking the wrong boots. There's at least 5 models out there that are very good for snowbaording, and that's not even counting the AT boots.

Arguably the best all-round snowboard boot, Head/Blax Stratos, comes directly of a ski boot design: Dalbello CarveX/CRX. The only difference is the toe/heel blocks. See for yourself, the pic below. The tip-to-tip length is absolutely the same, however, the sole of the Stratos is shorter due to slanted blocks. That still doesnt reduce the real overhang. Forward flex is great, can be set just as soft as LeMans (hated them), but you can "lock" them into way stiffer. There's couple of riding modes, and independant lean adjustment. Stock liner is of high quality and moldable.

I love mine.

Now for fairness, this winter I'm going to try the 325s and AF700s, just to see if they can stand up to the ski boots.

post-1678-141842233346_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, when will we ever see some real snowboard hardboots like a nice and snug racing ski boot with lace-up leather plug inside? (class of Fischer Soma Pro, Lange World Cup, Nordica Doberman World Cup, Atomic RT Ti........).

Many snowboard hardboots are just copies of low-class skiing boots, overall length of a properly fitted plug won't be longer than that of any snowboard hardboot - but well they are all brick hard compared to even the hardest snowboard hardboots.

However nevertheless as much as I love the glove like fitting of my skiing plugs I would never ever use them for snowboarding, too many things are just very different, starting with ramp angle and forward as well as sidewards flex and continuing. If I could ever have those nice Northwave .950 again that I once exchanged for some Raichles (stupid me) before realising that you can't get them anymore.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

how long has dalbello been making that boot?

the head boots were blax and were around at least 8 years ago, I suspect that dalbello boot might be similar to the Line boots(deeluxe with DIN ledges) in that someone figured out they might be good for entry level skiers because they are so soft so they made some boots with DIN ledges.

I've ridding allot of ski boots and a few AT boots, they all blow unless you want to do allot of work and at the end of the day they are all ****ing long and tend not work all that well in many bindings because the ledges are narrower.

I'm not going to back down on this, ski boots are not any damn good for 95% of us.

Seriously you guys, ski boots are like riding the old ass three strap bindings like the burton "system", you might think they are better but modern gear is the ****.

And FYI ski boots are dated as well, the flexon is still being sold. remember the TNT series from the early 90s? It's still Technica's top of the line boot they just changed the name to the Icon.

the only thing that's really changed in ski boots in the last 15 years as been that in high end boots they are using softer plastic and there are much softer low end boots these days.

Yes, I know what plugs are and they are over hyped, in particular for mere mortals.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

do the dalbellos have springs? trust me, that's a huge part of the boot.

if you were riding in dalbellos why not just get the heads anyway and support the guys who support your sport instead of letting dalbello think you're another skier?

I'm not inexperienced and I've been around plenty, I could make a ski boot work but to even suggest that to the average rider is doing he/she a dis-service.

you said it depends on how you ride and what you want, that sure is true, I really didn't mind some sliced up TNT 8s with TD1s and a plank of a GS stick in the late 90's but the minute I got back in a snowboard specific hard boot I knew it for sure and suddenly my angles dropped about five degrees too.

Did I mention that the ski boots were a full shell size smaller than my snowboard specific boots but were still longer?

damn it! where's Bordy when we need advice on these things.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would have to agree with Bobdea- ski boots are not a good choice. I have spent a lot of time riding in them in past years. This year will be season 29 and I have ridden lots of different plate bindings and boots and am having fun riding Deluxe Suszuka boots with BTS. I think you will wear out a board faster riding in ski boots as well due to the fact that they put more force into the board. Years ago some alpine boards were really stiff -I.e some of the boards made by Wayne at Cruise and Bruise sports in Idaho Springs Colorado. you would need ski boots and Catek plates to be able to drive them hard enough to carve well. These boards were made more for all out agressive racing and not so much for free carving. I feel that ski boots give a rough ride unless the snow is perfectly groomed. I also like riding mellower angles now due to the fact that I am starting to like wider boards-Donek G force blade and Dupraz D1. I used to ride 60 degree angles on both feet with ski boots. Now I am riding 50 front and 45 rear. I think BTS helps to smooth things out even more and allows more adjustment to your boots. Don' be afraid to try some of these new things. Alpine decks are getting softer so that the ride quality is better and they are more fun to ride. I don't know if I will go back to riding narrower boards or not as I don't race and like a more comfortable ride.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We've really hi-jacked this tread. Ah well, fun discussion anyways...

Bob, I didn't try to imply that YOU are inexperienced. Actually I'm well aware that you've beenn on snowboard way longer than myself. I'm not even trying to convince people to ride in ski boots, just feel the need to speek up favorably as they are overly bashed.

I like riding in ski boots for couple of reasons:

- Easy switch over from skis to board and back

- Like the solid feal they give and quality of make (buckles, etc.)

- Availabillity at local market - aside a single ocassion last year when a pile of Deeluxe boots were delivered by mistake to a store, it is practically impossible to get hard boots in Vancouver. I like trying before buying.

- Prices are mostly better

- Don't like too much pressure on my ankles

- Come from skiing background

As for Dalbellos vs Head, well as D-Sub said, Head boots are manufactured by Dalbello, who's owned by Elan. Also, Head has majority of their skis made by Elan. As they make F2's stuff and some of Volkl's stuff, as well as Nordica's, and there's tons of the examples of similar conglomeations worldwide, it is hard to say that your money goes to the people "who support your sport".

This particullar boot, CarveX, has been around for quite some time, maybe even discontinued by now. When you look at the mode/lean adjustor it is more like Blax boots than Head. I didn't dissemble the mechanism, but I would imagine that it doesn't have the spring. I suppose they would take BTS with same type of mod that's required on Heads...

And finaly, here's a list of ski boots that work on snowboard, from my f1st hand knowledge:

- Dalbello CarveX / CRX, obviously

- Nordica 800 series (older model), cuff piece completelly separate from lower, lean adjuster, free flex forward adjusted by 2nd and 3rd buckle

- Dynafit F2, has the elsatomer flex device, narrow fit

- Dynafit F3, probably the best ski boot ever made, independent leen/flex adjustors, built in springs forward and backward direction, walk mode

- Raichle Flexon / Dalbello Krypton

- Raichle/Deeluxe has a model equivlent to SB series, but with DIN blocks

- Some of modern low/mid level Rossis and Nordicas have very good flex adjustments. Can't recal the model names right now.

Boris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've used my Burton wind Hardies on my Custom 164 , 168 and now my All mountain T6 164. Awesome the boots are comfortable and VERY direct making the board very pleasurable to ride.

A word of caution leave your boots unlocked for some flex, unless your board is torsionally stiff like the T6, and you'll have a blast

My Angles

55 Deg and 3 Deg rear cant on the front foot

50 Deg and 6 Deg forward cant on the rear

BTW Awesome start to our season so far :) How 'bout you lot get over here !!

PS My Boots work real cool for Snow skates too

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share




  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...