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I must say in some ways I regreat starting this / I will not do it again !

More on this soon / but would like to share one more thing/ food for thought !

How Long Do We Have?

About the time our original thirteen states adopted their new constitution

in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of

Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the

Athenian Republic some

2,000 years earlier:

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a

Permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until

the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from

the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always vote for the

candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the

result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal

policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship."

"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning

of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, those

nations always progressed through the following sequence:

1. >From bondage to spiritual faith;

2. From spiritual faith to great courage;

3. >From courage to liberty;

4. >From liberty to abundance;

5. From abundance to complacency;

6. From complacency to apathy;

7. >From apathy to dependence;

8. From dependence back into bondage"

Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law, St. Paul,

Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the 2000

Presidential election:

Population of counties won by:

Gore: 127 million; Bush: 143 million

Square miles of land won by: Gore: 580,000; Bush: 2,427,000

States won by: Gore: 19; Bush: 29

Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by: Gore: 13.2; Bush: 2.1

Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of the territory Bush won

was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of this great country.

Gore's territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in

government-owned tenements and living off various forms of government----------Welfare!

Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the

"complacency

and apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy, with some forty percent of the nation's population already having reached the governmental dependency" phase. If Congress grants amnesty and citizenship to twenty million criminal

invaders called illegals and they vote, then good-bye to the USA in fewer than five years.

Pass this along to help everyone realize just how much is at stake, knowing that apathy is the greatest danger to our freedom.

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The united states of America started out as a republic, not a democracy. Look at your Pledge of Allegience, "and to the Republic for which it stands.." There is a very large fundimental difference between a republic and a democracy. A republic stands to protect the rights of individual citizens, a democracy is majority rule, which does not protect individuals who dissent with majority thought. The Constitution was written with the thought in mind that the rights stated are presupposed to belong "naturally" to the citizen, God given(in their words), inaleinable, or not able to be encroached upon by government. These terms, as used now,(republican and democrat) are meaningless. We have went to the level of government of priveledge, a ruling class as it were, a Fabian socialist government which is self-serving in it's interests. We could have turned back this tide in the 20's/30's with some short term discomfort. Now? Only a drawn out painful process could have any hope. Funny thing to me is how the one Book which has any insight into this change is rejected by most people. Revelation 13 shows a world power which arises out of the earth, the 2 horned beast, that starts out peacefully, yet changes it's actions to become a persecuting power at the end time. While the book of Revelation is speaking in terms of worship, the political parallel is interesting, to say the least. Thanks for putting up with my rant!

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The reason we have a republic was because they looked at the historical examples and agreed that a democracy had those types of problems. They forgot to put in term limits so we wouldn't have to deal with career politicians.

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Jon Dahl Awesome ! Personally I see this as a very intelligent responce/ spoken with class with the lack of heated words with a-lot of blanks in them !

Not that I'm above that, but it takes a-lot of pushing to get me down to that level ! I just don't ware that attitude on my sleeve ! I'm the Alpha type myself & I have it on reserve & bring it out when needed ! I don't use it as a way of life !

I feel those that do --- well it could be overcompensation !!

I throw topics out there to get people thinking ! Not to condemn an-others way of thinking ! First thing that comes to mind IRON SHARPENS IRON!

Jon Thank you for your input !

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  • 2 weeks later...

About this story, by George J. Esseff, Here is something that jumped out at me That no-one on here seamed to pick up !

And one of the reasons I Posted it ! He ran this add in The “Washington Post! A known liberal publication ! A quote from “Marie Arana”A Washington Post editor, Quoted in her own Paper!

The elephant in our newsroom is our narrowness! Too often, we wear Liberalism on our sleeve and are intolerant of other lifestyles & opinions ! We’re not very subtle about it at this paper. If you work here. you must be one of us! You must be liberal, progressive–Democrat!

That’s a big statement from a group who takes pride in being open minded !

With that said: Why did he do it? I think he wanted to reach as many Liberals as possible, To give them something to think about !

At $104,655.60 for a one day add To me that’s sounds very expensive ! I can’t help but wonder if someone wanted to run a add like this that lined up with the papers political agenda wether it would cost any thing at all? I even wonder if they would even Pay for it !

The main stream media Today promotes 77% Liberal ideas !

Something to think about!

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About this story, by George J. Esseff, Here is something that jumped out at me That no-one on here seamed to pick up !

And one of the reasons I Posted it ! He ran this add in The “Washington Post! A known liberal publication ! A quote from “Marie Arana”A Washington Post editor, Quoted in her own Paper!

The elephant in our newsroom is our narrowness! Too often, we wear Liberalism on our sleeve and are intolerant of other lifestyles & opinions ! We’re not very subtle about it at this paper. If you work here. you must be one of us! You must be liberal, progressive–Democrat!

That’s a big statement from a group who takes pride in being open minded !

With that said: Why did he do it? I think he wanted to reach as many Liberals as possible, To give them something to think about !

At $104,655.60 for a one day add To me that’s sounds very expensive ! I can’t help but wonder if someone wanted to run a add like this that lined up with the papers political agenda wether it would cost any thing at all? I even wonder if they would even Pay for it !

The main stream media Today promotes 77% Liberal ideas !

Something to think about!

i am curious, what is the deciding factor to put a space before the exclamation point or not?

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-

The brain is composed of two hemispheres, known as the left and right hemisphere. While each hemisphere has unique functions, which one side performs and the other does not, both hemispheres possess the ability to analyze sensory data, perform memory functions, learn new information, form thoughts, and make decisions.

The way you use these abilities determines a large part of your personality and behavior. By the time we, as humans, are two years old, one hemisphere begins to dominate your decision-making process. Communication between the two halves is possible due to the corpus callosum and this process continues to improve until the age of 15.

The left hemisphere specializes in analytical thought. It is responsible for dealing with "hard" facts such as abstractions, structure, discipline, rules, time sequences, mathematics, categorizing, logic, rationality, and deductive reasoning.Usually, very critical of others, sometimes so detail orientated, they miss the whole point! It is also responsible for details, knowledge, definitions, planning, goals, words, productivity, efficiency, science, technology, stability, extroversion, physical activity, and the right side of the body. Left hemisphere ability is the predominant focus in school and society.

The right hemisphere specializes in "softer" aspects than the left hemisphere. The right hemisphere is responsible for intuition, feelings, sensitivity, emotions, daydreaming, visualizing, creativity, color, spatial awareness, and first impressions. It is also responsible for rhythm, spontaneity, impulsiveness, the physical senses, risk-taking, flexibility and variety, learning by experience, relationships, mysticism, play and sports, introversion, humor, motor skills, Art & music and the left side of the body (the old belief that left-handed people are more creative does hold some scientific credence). The right hemisphere also has a holistic method of perception that is able to recognize patterns and similarities and combines those elements into new forms.The right brain people are the inventors/ thus the lite bulb etc.They are more interested in the "heart" of the matter/ not the minute little details ! They tend to be very tolerant of others. To a right brain-er details are in the way/ You can not enjoy the beauty of the forest if you are scrutinizing each tree!

There is no right or wrong between right or left/ it takes both to run society !

It is what it is !

In the business world, its the right brain that creates the product & the are salesmen !

The left brain dominate person, build,s the product while others keep records !

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Most of us on the right side and beyond refer to him as "that Leprechaun":lol:

If we are talking about talk show hosts the only right winged one that isn't in some incestuous relationship with the party is Michael Savage and some days he's a little crazy.

I hope everyone is aware that these people are in the entertainment business not the government business. they get paid to piss you off. The more controversial they are the better the ratings and the bigger the paycheck.:freak3:

That absolutely includes both sides of the aisle. Mr Moore is no exception.

I have no obections to a political discussion because its places like this where people already share common interests, that the realization that we are not so different occurs. I have noticed a strong shift in values among the party whining lately that is interesting. All of a sudden Libs are standing up for individual rights other than free speech. Republicans look more and more like Liberals every day. When I talk to people I find that the split on ideas is nearly 90 degrees off of the party line. I don't think the parties, either one, care a spit about their constituency any more. They are both up to their ears in Corporate lobbyist money. Hard to know where to start the cleanup process:angryfire

Just read your post, Dr. D. - I think we probably disagree on a lot of political issues but I think we'd get along in person, which seems not to common is this day and age (I blame O'Reilly and Moore with providing the "worthless soundbites that sound good" ammunition for slinging at and demonizing the other side).

In regards to your "Republicans look more and more like Liberals" and "libs standing up for individual rights now", I have also noticed something like this. I used to think that conservatives were distrustful of the government and wanted more local and individual power over the federal government, and that liberals were trustful of the government. Nowadays I see a complete shift - the republicans trust that the federal government is just "doing the right thing" with its expanded power, and the liberals are constantly worried that personal rights are being encroached upon. Isn't that totally backwards?

Now it seems pretty clear to me that it's not that republicans are distrustful of government and liberals are trusting, but that both groups of people trust the government when their own people are in power, and suspicious when the other side is in power.

In my old age I am (as seems inevitable) changing from a liberal to a conservative (I am still socially liberal, but I want the government to just leave me and everybody else alone - so what does that make me? A socially liberal libertarian?), but strangely enough, being "conservative" in that I want the budget balanced, want a more restricted government, and want a less world-policey military seems to be pushing me in the direction of the democratic party. Again, totally backwards. Actually, it's pushing me in the opposite direction of the republican party, which is not really the same as the democratic party.

Amen to that. I'd take a Republican with integrity over a Dem with a fat corporate bankroll any day. Don't know that there's such a thing as a politician with integrity on either side of the aisle though.

I wish John McCain from 6-7 years ago was still around. You know, before he became just another one of those guys.

At $104,655.60 for a one day add To me that’s sounds very expensive ! I can’t help but wonder if someone wanted to run a add like this that lined up with the papers political agenda wether it would cost any thing at all? I even wonder if they would even Pay for it !

I don't know if you're insinuating that the Washington Post ripped him off, but I doubt it. Full page ads are expensive.

The main stream media Today promotes 77% Liberal ideas !

I don't know where you're getting your percentages from, but that sounds like skin cream that makes your skin "up to 15% more luscious!" ;)

See: Hostile Media Effect... From the article (emphasis mine):

On a number of objective measures, both sides found that these identical news clips were slanted in favor of the other side. Pro-Israeli students reported seeing more anti-Israel references and fewer favorable references to Israel in the news report and pro-Palestinian students reported seeing more anti-Palestinian references, and so on. Both sides said a neutral observer would have a more negative view of their side from viewing the clips, and that the media would have excused the other side where it blamed their side.

It is important to note that the two sides were not asked questions about subjective generalizations about the media coverage as a whole, such as what might be expressed as "I thought that the news has been generally biased against this side of the issue." Instead, when viewing identical news clips, subjects differed along partisan lines on simple, objective criteria such as the number of references to a given subject. The research suggests the hostile media effect is not just a difference of opinion but a difference of perception.

I bring it up because I have liberal friends that believe the media is biased to the right. Personally, I think the media is so terrified of being thought of as biased that they can't even make simple statements of fact without giving equal face time to some looney who disagrees. "Some people think baby bunny rabbits are cute and adorable, while others say bunny rabbits turn into giant robots and shoot plasma cannons at babies at night. We'll hear from these two experts later this evening."

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http://www.washingtonpostads.com/adsite/how/twp/rates/by-card/premium-position/page1664.html

not sure what the old man thought he was paying for, but these are the going rates for premium position advertising in the Post...

Snopes tells me it is true, and that it ran on 0ctober 20 (a wednesday) to attempt to sway undecided votors leading up to the 2004 election...

My only response is: to each his own. We are all entitled to our opinions. Personally, I think Catek makes the best all metal binding on the market...does that make me a democrat? a republican? a good person? a bad person?

Vote your conscience, and sleep well at night.

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The father of “modern thought”, Aristotle, defines 3 types of the state establishment, all having the “just” and “unjust” variety.

Just ones:

Monarchy, Theocracy, Republic

Their unjust equivalents, respectively:

Tyranny/Dictatorship, Oligarchy, Democracy

Difference is in the presence or absence of oppression.

Now, the state of the things in US, and in majority of other countries, is just a pure farce. US proclaims to run a “democracy” even when the Republicans are in power, while behind the scenes, it is just run as an Oligarchy in despite of the Reds or Blues being in charge. There’s serious tendency towards Dictatorship, too. Also, US totally fails to exhibit any form of Democracy on international level, thus defeating the own concept of Democracy.

Another interesting ploy is that Democracy is often shown as the opposite of Communism, which is completely incorrect. Communism is a model of economy, just as Socialism, Capitalism, Feudalism, Slavery and Primeval Society. Antique Greece and Rome, as well US at certain stage, were based on slave labor economic model, yet their state establishments were Democracies and Republics at the times. So, the Communist economic model could be run as Republic, Democracy, Dictatorship, etc.

Advertising in a political campaign is just insane. It is just pure manipulation of opinions – a direct implementation from corporate world. It is also the proof of the Oligarhy state of things.

Boris

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The father of “modern thought”, Aristotle, defines 3 types of the state establishment, all having the “just” and “unjust” variety.

Just ones:

Monarchy, Theocracy, Republic

Their unjust equivalents, respectively:

Tyranny/Dictatorship, Oligarchy, Democracy

Difference is in the presence or absence of oppression.

Now, the state of the things in US, and in majority of other countries, is just a pure farce. US proclaims to run a “democracy” even when the Republicans are in power, while behind the scenes, it is just run as an Oligarchy in despite of the Reds or Blues being in charge. There’s serious tendency towards Dictatorship, too. Also, US totally fails to exhibit any form of Democracy on international level, thus defeating the own concept of Democracy.

Another interesting ploy is that Democracy is often shown as the opposite of Communism, which is completely incorrect. Communism is a model of economy, just as Socialism, Capitalism, Feudalism, Slavery and Primeval Society. Antique Greece and Rome, as well US at certain stage, were based on slave labor economic model, yet their state establishments were Democracies and Republics at the times. So, the Communist economic model could be run as Republic, Democracy, Dictatorship, etc.

Advertising in a political campaign is just insane. It is just pure manipulation of opinions – a direct implementation from corporate world. It is also the proof of the Oligarhy state of things.

Boris

I am not sure where everyone gets the "USA is a democracy" idea from. We are a republic or at least we were! the "spreading democracy across the world thing is weird to. someone once said that democracy is just Tyranny of the masses. or somehting similiar.

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Just read your post, Dr. D. - I think we probably disagree on a lot of political issues but I think we'd get along in person, which seems not to common is this day and age

I would have to call myself an objectivist. Capitalism and personal responsibility and self reliance are probably the most important part of my personal philosophy. Altruism sounds good on paper but the social ramifications up to and including communism disturb me deeply. A deep rooted montana values thing be responsible and self reliant and help your neighbor when he needs it no strings and no expectations attached. Politically I am way right of republican on most issues and would fall somewhere in the libertarian/ constitutionalist area of thought. I am a fan of the john birch society and a fan of isolationism at least long enough to stabilize our own economy and fix our own problems.

I try to get along with everyone I meet. I will jab and poke at someone on the other side of an issue but its always in good fun! I love to have an intelligent dialogue on various issues. I find that you can learn a lot from the other side if you can converse without resorting to talking points and petty name calling. I have a regular rant with a cousin who is quite Liberal. We send each other the inflammatory emails that go around and then see who can snope it first etc. We always end up discussing the issues and often find consensus outside the box that party labels would normally place us.:biggthump

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  • 2 weeks later...

> Jay Leno wrote this; it's the Jay Leno we don't often see...

"The other day I was reading Newsweek magazine and came across

some poll data I found rather hard to believe. It must be true given the

source, right?

The Newsweek poll alleges that 67 percent of Americans are

unhappy with the direction the country is headed and 69 percent of the

country is unhappy with the performance of the president. In essence

2/3s of the citizenry just ain't happy and want a change.

So being the knuckle dragger I

am, I started thinking, '' What we

are so unhappy about?''

Is it that we have electricity and running water 24 hours a day,

7 days a week? Is our unhappiness the result of having air conditioning

in the summer and heating in the winter?

Could it be that 95.4 percent of these unhappy folks have a job?

Maybe it is the ability to walk into a grocery store at any time and see

more food in moments than Darfur has seen in the last year?

Maybe it is the ability to drive from the Pacific Ocean to the

Atlantic Ocean without having to present identification papers as we

move through each state? Or possibly the hundreds of clean and safe

motels we would find along the way that can provide temporary shelter?

I guess having thousands

of restaurants with varying cuisine

from around the world is just not good enough. Or could it be that when

we wreck our car, emergency workers show up and provide services to help

all and even send a helicopter to take you to the hospital.

Perhaps you are one of the 70 percent of Americans who own a

home. You may be upset with knowing that in the unfortunate case of a

fire, a group of trained firefighters will appear in moments and use top

notch equipment to extinguish the flames thus saving you, your family

and your belongings.

Or if, while at home watching one of your many flat screen TVs,

a burglar or prowler intrudes , an officer equipped with a gun and a

bullet-proof vest will come to defend you and your family against attack

or loss. This all in the

>backdrop of a neighborhood free of bombs or

militias raping and pillaging the residents. Neighborhoods where 90

percent of teenagers own cell phones and computers.

How about the complete religious, social and political freedoms

we enjoy that are the envy of everyone in the world? Maybe that is what

has 67 percent of you folks unhappy.

Fact is, we are the largest group of ungrateful, spoiled brats

the world has ever seen. No wonder the world loves the U.S. , yet has a

great disdain for its citizens. They see us for what we are. The most

blessed people in the world who do nothing but complain about what we

don't have , and what we hate about the country instead of thanking the

good Lord we live here.

I know, I know. What about the

president who took us into war

and has no plan to get us out? The president who has a measly 31 percent

approval rating? Is this the same president who guided the nation in the

dark days after 9/11? The president that cut taxes to bring an economy

out of recession? Could this be the same guy who has been called every

name in the book for succeeding in keeping all the spoiled ungrateful

brats safe from terrorist attacks?

The commander in chief of an all-volunteer army that is out

there defending you and me? Did you hear how bad the President is on the

news or talk show? Did this news affect you so much, make you so unhappy

you couldn't take a look around for yourself and see all the good things

and be glad?

Think about it......are you upset at the President

because he

actually caused you personal pain OR is it because the "Media" told you

he was failing to kiss your sorry ungrateful behind every day.

Make no mistake about it. The troops in Iraq and Afghanistan

have volunteered to serve, and in many cases may have died for your

freedom. There is currently no draft in this country. They didn't have

;to go.

They are able to refuse to go and end up with either a

''general'' discharge, an ''other than honorable'' discharge or, worst

case scenario, a ''dishonorable'' discharge after a few days in the

brig.

So why then the flat-out discontentment in the minds of 69

percent of Americans? Say what you want but I blame it on the media. If

it bleeds it leads and they specialize in bad

news. Everybody will watch

a car crash with blood and guts. How many will watch kids selling

lemonade at the corner? The media knows this and media outlets are

for-profit corporations. They offer what sells , and when criticized,

try to defend their actions by "justifying" them in one way or another.

Just ask why they tried to allow a murderer like O.J. Simpson to write a

book about how he didn't kill his wife, but if he did he would have done

it this way.... ..Insane!

Stop buying the negativism you are fed everyday by the media.

Shut off the TV, burn Newsweek, and use the New York Times for the

bottom of your bird cage. Then start being grateful for all we have as a

country. There is exponentially more good than bad.

We are among the most blessed people

on Earth and should thank

God several times a day, or at least be thankful and appreciative."

"With hurricanes, tornados, fires out of control, mud slides,

flooding, severe thunderstorms tearing up the country from one end to

another, and with the threat of bird flu and terrorist attacks, "Are we

sure this is a good time to take God out of the Pledge of Allegiance?"

Jay Leno

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Snopes says Jay Leno had nothing to do with it, but Craig R. Smith (WorldNetDaily) did, so the essay goes from being a "leftie hollywood type sees the light" piece to being a "rightie calling people who don't agree with him a bunch of whiny ungrateful brats" piece.

But in any case, I think lots of people who are generally unhappy with the "direction America is headed" are like me: my personal situation is fine - I have a house, I have enough money, I get to snowboard when I want, etc. - but I am disappointed by the way our country uses its clout, power and wealth.

Think of it this way: you have a son, and he's captain of the football team and popular with the cool kids, but he beats up the nerds on the math team and chess club. You love him because he's your son, and proud because he's the best at what he does, but you're disappointed in him, because he could be so much better of a person. And, when you say that you wish he'd be a better person, your spouse says that must mean you hate your son, or you think he's weak, or a loser, but obviously you don't - you just want him to be better.

Put another way, I feel like my country is the best in the world, but we could be better (and we were better 10 years ago). Not "better off", but "better".

Fact is, we are the largest group of ungrateful, spoiled brats

the world has ever seen. No wonder the world loves the U.S. , yet has a

great disdain for its citizens.

I would say that right now the whole world has distain for the U.S., but likes some of its citizens OK.

Think about it......are you upset at the President because he actually caused you personal pain

No, if anything the President has made my life better (though possibly worse in the long run), but I am upset that he, in my view, has made the world a worse place. If I backstab a guy at work and get promoted, I have made my life and those of my family better (though possibly worse in the long run because I'm making enemies), but I've done the wrong thing.

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> Jay Leno wrote this; it's the Jay Leno we don't often see...

" How about the complete religious, social and political freedoms

we enjoy that are the envy of everyone in the world?

Bush appears to enjoy his freedoms too, like his freedom to unilaterally <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/16/politics/16program.html?ex=1292389200&en=e32070e08c623ac1&ei=5089">authorize the NSA </a>to wiretap US citizens without a warrant.

>

The president that cut taxes to bring an economy

out of recession?

Thereby driving our national deficit to a <a href="http://nationalpriorities.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=40&Itemid=110"> record $8 trillion</a> and undoing the progress made toward retiring the deficit during the Clinton administration. Funny to watch him spout his catch phrase "freedom ain't free", while he blithely takes advantage of loans to pay for his war, piling up debt that he'll never pay off.

>

Could this be the same guy who has been called every

name in the book for succeeding in keeping all the spoiled ungrateful

brats safe from terrorist attacks?

I think it's perfectly appropriate to call him "every name in the book" for dodging the draft during the Vietnam War - and than going AWOL from the National Guard because that wasn't cushy enough. Oh...maybe Bush wasn't the "spoiled ungrateful brat" that you meant.

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But in any case, I think lots of people who are generally unhappy with the "direction America is headed" are like me: my personal situation is fine - I have a house, I have enough money, I get to snowboard when I want, etc. - but I am disappointed by the way our country uses its clout, power and wealth.

Think of it this way: you have a son, and he's captain of the football team and popular with the cool kids, but he beats up the nerds on the math team and chess club. You love him because he's your son, and proud because he's the best at what he does, but you're disappointed in him, because he could be so much better of a person. And, when you say that you wish he'd be a better person, your spouse says that must mean you hate your son, or you think he's weak, or a loser, but obviously you don't - you just want him to be better.

Put another way, I feel like my country is the best in the world, but we could be better (and we were better 10 years ago). Not "better off", but "better".

No, if anything the President has made my life better (though possibly worse in the long run), but I am upset that he, in my view, has made the world a worse place. If I backstab a guy at work and get promoted, I have made my life and those of my family better (though possibly worse in the long run because I'm making enemies), but I've done the wrong thing.

Well put kjl!

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Correction made ! Thank You! Craig R. Smith wrote it !

I thought it was a little committed for Jay !

However the info is still the same/from my point of view I consume the beer, you know that cold,frosty, refreshing stuff, not the label on the bottle!!!!!!

I must say I enjoy hearing from both sides of the issue on here/ as long as it is tactful ! Maybe we will all learn something! I have!!!!!!

Keep it coming !!!!!!!

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