You could call it asymmetrical...

[Rob Stevens]

I was thinking the other day about ordering a board for freeride that would have a deeper sidecut on the heel edge. The problem I'm trying to solve is a standard boards ability to carve really tight on the toes, but having to skid it a bit on the heels, or let the turn get a bit bigger if I want to keep carving.

Because I can't generate the same edge angle on the heelside that I can on the toes (45 degrees or so vs. 90 degrees), shouldn't a shorter radius sidecut allow a tighter turn at less tilt?

Sounds logical when I say it to myself.

I'm not worried about straight-running. If it was possible and comfortable on some classics I've ridden (Kemper Apex to Burton Asym Air) then this sort of thing shouldn't be any twitchier than those.

Before I go re-inventing the wheel, does anyone know of a plank with this tech incorporated already? Does anyone think this idea is weak?

[Gecko]

I know there were boards made this way in the past...mid ninties maybe, I'm pretty sure Santa Cruz made some board like this. Talk to Sean, Chris or Bruce one should be able to build this for you if you really want it

[Neil Gendzwill]

There were several boards with asymmetrical sidecut in the past, but I'm not sure if any are currently sold. I know some combined a shifted sidecut with the different radii.

[pebu]

I don't think the problem would be alleviated with a board like that. When you WANT to skid (say to stop or something) what you do is lay your board flatter. If you were to have a tighter scr you'd come into the turn with the same speed and to get the same turn radius you'd be laying your board flatter (flatter=more skid)...

[Pow]

Santa Cruz still makes boards like this. They call the system "Bi-O-Metric Sidecut" and it's available on every body that they lable TT. http://www.santacruzsnowboards.com/snow/06_07/features.php#twintip

[Fat Old Bastard]

I think the Nitro Diablos were like that. Used to love my Diablo 178.

[trikerdad]

Have you experimented with adding some heel lift?

[Rob Stevens]

Pow:

I looked at the SC site and the only FR board they have is a 166 without the feature you pointed out. Too short as well. Too bad because that's exactly what I'm looking for.

Pebu:

Flatter = More skid? There's an update!

Trikerdad:

Straight heel lift would be very awkward on a freeride setup with my angles. I have tried risers, but they provided too much leverage. Slightly off-centre landings became very twitchy, but carving was improved. I might have to give them another chance, but I'm probably missing 50 or so of the 1000 and something small parts that came with the Palmer system.

The search still continues for a production board like this, but if custom is the only way...

[NateW]

I had a Nitro Diablo too, great board. The Aggression Tarquin boards were the same way. I still think asym probably makes sense for freeride boards due to the low stance angles. Crouching to get low = bending knees = angulation in the wrong direction.

I had http://www.customcraftsnowboards.com/ build me an asym twin tip several years ago. It broke on day one, but they replaced it (they said they were expecting my call, actually) and the replacement they sent is still going strong.

The first board had 10m and 9m sidecuts, it seemed about right. The replacement is symmetrical because right after the first one broke I figured out, thanks to people on this site, that stance angles as low as 45/30 (what I was riding at the time) will allow a technique that makes asymmetry unnecessary.

But I'm still not convinced that a symmetrical board is better for softbooting - when you're facing sideways, your body doesn't bend symmetrically, so I think it makes sense to have a board the carves asymmetrically to balance things out. That's only speculation though, since I quit riding soft boots about 10 years ago. :)

See also http://www.happymonkeysnowboards.com/ - I know the head monkey and I am sure he can build an asym board.

[boostertwo]

...Because I can't generate the same edge angle on the heelside that I can on the toes (45 degrees or so vs. 90 degrees)...

Would there be a reason you can't tilt it as high heelside as you can toeside? Are you booting out?

<img src="http://i15.tinypic.com/4dllxrr.jpg" border="0" alt="Spike Eisenman, Beaver Creek, Co.">

[Rob Stevens]

That's a low heelside, no doubt.

I can get there, but the problem is the difference in commitment between what I'd have to do on my toes to get the same arc.

On **** snow, we can get that high angle on the toes without nearly as much centre'o'mass to the inside.

Nobody can say you're "sitting on the crapper" in that turn. The style is unreal, but asks you to get into a pretty exposed position. Should your edge go away, you're definitely down.

Nate's contacts board, I'm hoping, would allow me to get a tighter carved turn at 45 degrees, boot out aside, so I don't have to put my hips into it so much.

If I can get the turn from a more centred position, I'm hoping to stay more stable, upright and control my speed better.

Again, nice pic.

[trikerdad]

If you notice the bent knees, he's not as "exposed" as you would think. This allows him to absorb any bumps or skips. If his legs were pushed out straight, then he could be in trouble. It's all a matter of commitment.

[Gtanner]

FYI, I know Bruce has toyed with asym cores in some of his slalom boards...neat concept and my old coach loved his board.

-Gord

[abakker]

i have had significant trouble with the same problem, that is not generating enough angle on my heelsides. my fix was to run slightly higher angles and to really push myself lower on the snow.

it may seem like more commitment, and it is initially, but if you are already 80 degrees over, and then you lose your edge, it is usually a much better fall than coming out of your edge at a 45 degree angle (which is a common problem) and then falling all the way to the ground.

if i am really pushing my angles i might fall more if the snow isn't perfect, however the falls are more like slides, and there is rarely impact.

just my 2 cents

[Rob Stevens]

Yeah, falling from a high place rather than a low one is the way to go, but I won't change my angles, so I'm stuck with the duck mechanics.

I love ducks.

[Pow]

if i am really pushing my angles i might fall more if the snow isn't perfect, however the falls are more like slides, and there is rarely impact.

couldn't agree more, the lower I carve the less pain I feel when I wipe out.

[Dr D]

try steeper angles and really drive your forward knee into the mtn on your heelsides. the farther you drive the knee the tighter she'll go and hold without hopping or chattering. I noticed what you describe early this year and discovered that I was really just afraid of the nose chatter that happens when the board takes a tighter arc and doesn't hold it repeatedly on heelsides. by driving the knee into the hill the chatter stopped and control returned. I ride with my heels and toes on the edges so no boot out and 45 degrees of angulation would be about right. I think you will find that if you rotate forward a little you will absorb the crud and bumps better as well.

my 2 cents:cool:

I am riding vans switch ntypes and ntype step ins on osin 4807 168 and a 178 and a Garage freeride board. so it works on a variety of boards.

[powell1.8]

My favorite board back when I rode freeride only, was a Santa Cruz Tau. I wish I still had it. It had the asymetrical sidecuts, and I believe it was the first board to do this. It seemed to work well.

As far as heelside problems on the freeride, I found that ankle strength is key. I have never really used my highbacks. They are there, but I use my ankles to get the my board up on edge. By doing this I can keep more weight over the edge, because I don't have to lean out away from the board to get on edge. I can really jam on the edge, with less heel drag. I will say that the new boots make this harder to do. I still look for boots with a little more flexability. Way back in high school I would be bouncing on my ankles all the time to build strength. It may sound weird, but it really helped. Back in the day, I was the only rider that I knew that really carved all my turns. Never been a skidder, thank my lucky stars, been carving from day one.

[svr]

I ride my softies with my rear foot 1cm offset towards toeside to create a similar feel on my 2m tankers to the way my old asyms felt...I loved the tau and asr from santa cruz as well as well as the old nitro pyro and diablo 186.