lonerider Posted March 6, 2007 Report Share Posted March 6, 2007 So what's the bottom line...Are they durable or are we looking at an experimental piece of equipment? Hate to be part way through season and have one delam or break. Are they as durable as say Donek standard production?Sounds like you've already made up your mind. Why don't you just wait 4-5 years until we've all enjoyed a couple of seasons riding them first I'm joking, my point is that they may break, they may not break. That's true of all boards... metals might be a little less durable, but they aren't tissue paper either. If you are hard on your boards (you should know) then don't get one. Prior does warranty them and the caveats basically cover abuse cases (metal bindings are allowed if they have gaskets like TD2 or OS2). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavechaser Posted March 6, 2007 Report Share Posted March 6, 2007 None of the broken boards in the main forum are metal constructed boards. Stuff breaks you shouldn't be surprised by that. I see broken equipment on a weekly basis. Between boots, bindings, boards, and bones, it seems like someone is always breaking something.There is a fine line in designing something that will perform well, yet is durable. Sometimes the best performing product is the most fragile, while the most durable rides like crap. Pros and cons....... Look at the ACC class America's Cup boats as a prime example. These things are built just barely strong enough to hold together, and sometimes they don't. At 24 knots of breeze these things sail, at 28 knots the rip sails and break masts and hulls and sink! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abakker Posted March 6, 2007 Report Share Posted March 6, 2007 i'm not saying that wood isn't good/that it is flawed doesn't work. it works. i ride wood core boards and love them. on the other hand, is it ever a bad idea to not look for something better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skategoat Posted March 6, 2007 Report Share Posted March 6, 2007 it seems to me that with all the technology going into these boards nowadays, someone should come up with something to replace the wood as that appears to be the weak link.just look at the main forum, 4 boards in 3 days from different riders. i imagine that there are synthetic/metal solutions (no foam) that could improve on wood. On my board, it was the metal edge that bent out of shape, not the wood core. The wood held up. Nothing wrong with wood construction in my not-so-knowledgeable opinion. Lots of money goes into ski R&D and they still use wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest needanswer Posted March 6, 2007 Report Share Posted March 6, 2007 I don't know anything about board construction, so just talking out of my a$$. but I wonder if bamboo can be used for building boards? I think bamboo is suppose to be light and can flex better than wood without cracking. regarding durability, I'm sure it depends on the combination of rider + board + condition. taken to the limit, anything will fail. it would be good if manufacturer can grade boards on how much G's it could take before breaking. Then riders can make their choice, base on the way they ride and the conditions they ride in. hmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skategoat Posted March 6, 2007 Report Share Posted March 6, 2007 Arbor makes a bamboo board so I guess it can work. However, for the boutique builder, I'll bet that bamboo would be a pain in the butt to work with. It's very hard and tends to splinter rather than cut cleanly. You have to have special blades to cut bamboo. I love bamboo as a material though. Strong and light. You can put bamboo cooking utensils in the dishwasher with no damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil sunday Posted March 6, 2007 Report Share Posted March 6, 2007 a friend of mine has the newest generation kessler, and he's 6'1" and 215 pouinds. probably one of the most aggressive-hardest riders in the nation. he's got 30 plus days on his 185 kessler w/ bomber td2 toe and heel pieces bolted directly to the spirig hangl plate system. no problems whatsoever to date. claims it is the best racing AND freeriding board ever made. the board weighs in at 20.5 pounds, and rides through crud, slush, ice and pretty much anything that we call snow in pennsylvania. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko Posted March 6, 2007 Report Share Posted March 6, 2007 Arbor boards are Bamboo topsheets not cores, The only production boards of any kind that I have heard of with Bamboo cores, that work/last anyway, are Loaded skateboards Bamboo is a boutique material in the skateboard world as well but it's coming along. BTW Bamboo isn't a wood but rather a grass, and it's easier and more precise to cut with a knife than a saw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Posted March 8, 2007 Report Share Posted March 8, 2007 Both Two totally different rides!!! Right??? I mean my buddy has the Prior WCR Metal 183 and when you get your weight over the nose it folds super easy. Interesting. Had a chance to spend some time on both the 183 and 187 Metal. After pushing on 'em pretty hard the nose never folded on me - and I was trying to make it happen After first flexing these things by hand and feeling how relatively soft they were, I was kinda worried about this. Already have one on my wish list Oh, and after riding the Donek Olympic (rode the Thorndike GS), the Metal won hands down for overall performance. Not to say that the Donek wasn't a nice ride - it was! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted March 8, 2007 Report Share Posted March 8, 2007 What about a Tinkler 203 system with titanal plate? Never had such a blast with a board. It goes to grutt, soft snow, bumps and carves on blue ice if there is none. Never had a board with such specs: Length 203cm,waist 18.5cm, side cut 15m, Taper 4mm, flex soft (you can stiffen it by turning the screws on the sticks, black board silver Titanal plate. I even can board it down the fall line on steep pists with small agressive turns. It boards like you have never been on another board before. Even sliding the board at low to moderate speeds is possible without effort. My favourite for this season without a doubt, thanks Mike for building me this one, worth every penny of it Hans, Your board is very similar to my very first custom Tinkler. I thought that at some point (after getting a couple more) I would probably sell those that were no longer my favorite. What I have found is that each has it's ideal use and the 203 full system board is definitely my go to board when the snow is softer. I love the ample nose and long running length combined with relatively soft flex. It is such a pleasure to ride. The same board but beefier (the one Mike built for himself/ 202 silver on silver) does not really work as well in the soft snow. In order to really crank it , the surface needs to be much firmer. Then it is a board that I can push just as hard as I can and it just hooks up harder and pops me into the next turn like a rocket. Recently I was given the chance to ride the 222cm Tinkler and it rode similarly , just MORE, and you definitely needed to be alert. When I came back to my 203 the next day it actually felt short and I rode like never before! I have been hard pressed to figure out what the next alpine board will be. However, I have a number of powder boards I would like to get Mike started on. Nice photo! Sure has allot of camber! Even without the Snow Stix cranked down!! Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipstar Posted March 8, 2007 Report Share Posted March 8, 2007 Look at the ACC class America's Cup boats as a prime example. These things are built just barely strong enough to hold together, and sometimes they don't. At 24 knots of breeze these things sail, at 28 knots the rip sails and break masts and hulls and sink! Good point, although the limits of the IACC boats are even worse than that, hese things are falling apart in well less than 24 knots! I don't think they are even allowed to sail IACC in anything above about 15 knots consistent; the boats would completely fall apart! They may climb up to windward like nothing else, but they are already pretty obsolete compared to the new breed of canters, which would absolutely thump them then sail in the Sydney Hobart or similar. Not like my boat, the mighty pornstar :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko Posted March 8, 2007 Report Share Posted March 8, 2007 Gecko:Comet made the first production bamboo decks way before any of the johnny come latelies. I think you can still get your hands on the Slalom Gary Cross. More appropriately, Comet also made the first production metal composite longboards. They used aircraft aluminum sheets top and bottom as opposed to titanal. Bola www.allboardssports.com Bola, I did say that I had heard of, and my point still seems to stand no one is producing a Bamboo core snowboard. I would buy one long before I ever bought a metal board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy T. Posted March 8, 2007 Report Share Posted March 8, 2007 Arbor does use a Bamboo reinforced core on two of their boards but none have a full Bamboo. There is some cool information under the Ecotechnologies area of their site here. From the web site: Bamboo Reinforced Core The Mystic and Westmark are built around a bamboo-reinforced core that radically increases board power and durability. Bamboo is one of the strongest materials on the planet. It has 40 times the effective life of carbon fiber and provides 60% more return than traditional core materials. Bamboo has a tensile strength and weight-to-strength ratio superior to steel, yet it is light, flexible, and resists compression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted March 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 even though it is a bit stiffer than stock it's still is easy to fold if you have the bindings in the back seat, that was the first thing I realized I needed to do was move my bindings forward after that it became a moot point. I'd love to hop on a kessler someday but they are rare beasts, someday. that said I'll have a metal coiler at some point too and I think that Bruce will be able to get the flex right for me if anyone can. these things are amazing though, hands down the metal prior is the the best carver I've been on so far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 even though it is a bit stiffer than stock it's still is easy to fold if you have the bindings in the back seat, that was the first thing I realized I needed to do was move my bindings forward after that it became a moot point. Interesting point. Thinking back to when I set up my bindings on these things, I remember trying to keep my stance as centered as possible (the insert packs gave you a lot of stance options). Even centered, the board still had plenty of nose and never gave any hint of folding while pushing hard into the turns. Of course at 157-160 lbs (it varies), I'm lighter than a few here (lighter than Bob for sure ;)) and may not have the mass to make that happen. Who knows. I do know that I have folded a few other alpine decks with similarly (subjective) softish longitudinal flexes while pushing moderately hard into the turns. I was pleasantly surprised by the performance of these boards - edge hold, dampness, versatility and ease of operation. The durability factor still gives me some pause, but as Phil and others have pointed out, the product is becoming more and more refined as builders improve construction methods and acquire better materials. Bottom line - I WANT ONE!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sandarapark Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 is it like , oxygen proton kind of soft or softer? anotherthing...those of you who hve been ridding these boards a lot ... how's the camber of the board doing? quitecurius bout this... u see, i have been enjoying this "carving" alot and i think i would like to invest on somrthing that doesn't easly break and that would last for a long time since i jst sold both my kidneys and i can't grow another batch of them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonerider Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 is it like , oxygen proton kind of soft or softer?anotherthing...those of you who hve been ridding these boards a lot ... how's the camber of the board doing? quitecurius bout this... u see, i have been enjoying this "carving" alot and i think i would like to invest on somrthing that doesn't easly break and that would last for a long time since i jst sold both my kidneys and i can't grow another batch of them... I had the Oxygen Proton 164GS and the Prior 178 WCR-M is softer, lighter, and more fun to ride. I can tell you that they don't easily break completely... I have ridden mine (with just a minor amount of caution) in the terrain park, on mogul runs, and dropped off a rock ledges on it. So I can say it doesn't break easily. Sure, if you They are pricey though, so if you are really that strapped for cash stick with regular construction boards until the price falls (don't be one of those people who loads up on snowboards and then "due to financial concerns" end up being forced to sell them not to long after). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.E Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 High Society offers Bamboo cored boards and skis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 is it like , oxygen proton kind of soft or softer?anotherthing...those of you who hve been ridding these boards a lot ... how's the camber of the board doing? quitecurius bout this... u see, i have been enjoying this "carving" alot and i think i would like to invest on somrthing that doesn't easly break and that would last for a long time since i jst sold both my kidneys and i can't grow another batch of them... Using the word "soft" is a qualitative description (and very subjective). I just noted that when hand flexing the deck, it felt more mellow compared to other standard-construction alpine decks (off the shelf and race stock) that I've flexed before. So yes, even a stock Proton may feel stiffer when hand flexed next to the Metal (I know that the 178 that I used to own felt significantly stiffer) Here's some reading material for you while sitting through those long dialysis treatments: http://www.hardbooter.com/news/archives/64-Titanal.html#extended It seems that the direct link wasn't working, so go to: www.hardbooter.com and read "The Best Alpine Prior Ever!" article. Enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Houghton Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 Camber on my 178 Prior metal is exactly the same after 25 days. I have absolutely no concerns about damage or folding the nose. I've ridden the board in powder, in lumpy crud and on groomers - as Bordy says, the best ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skategoat Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 Chris: Does this mean you're no longer the President of the Virus Fan Club? HK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sandarapark Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 They are pricey though, so if you are really that strapped for cash stick with regular construction boards until the price falls (don't be one of those people who loads up on snowboards and then "due to financial concerns" end up being forced to sell them not to long after). i just got a offer on a board with "titanal" in it for ca. $500...i cant remember the brand of the board but it has a huge letter "S" and "G" silver emblem near the nose and it's red or was that dark red and and a "funny" shaped nose (more like a nose of a powder board).... never seen the board in person though...i know this is a long shot but...does anyone recognize such a board? i am just sceptical to drop 500 buks on a board that might breakso easily... anyway...if it's softer than a proton, then it must be really soft...but are they also as damm as a proton? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skategoat Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 http://www.sgsnowboards.com/ I think what you've got there is a Sigi Grabner SG Race. If it's good enough for Sigi... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nekdut Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 i just got a offer on a board with "titanal" in it for ca. $500...i cant remember the brand of the board but it has a huge letter "S" and "G" silver emblem near the nose and it's red or was that dark red and and a "funny" shaped nose (more like a nose of a powder board).... never seen the board in person though...i know this is a long shot but...does anyone recognize such a board?i am just sceptical to drop 500 buks on a board that might breakso easily... anyway...if it's softer than a proton, then it must be really soft...but are they also as damm as a proton? sandara, I believe Sigi Grabner's boards retail for over a grand, so $500 is a pretty good deal for any metal board. If its not too long for you, you should consider picking it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sandarapark Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 just checked the site...it's the one on the far left (red one) i think it's the 162. thanks guys. i checked the spec on the board...somethin peculiar came up, it has a much shorter running lenght for it's size compared to other boards (131 cm for a 162)...not just that but all the all sigis boards are....anyway, has anybody tried it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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