Learning how to ride by the age of 5

[jtslalom]

My daughter recently turned five this past February. This is her second full year riding, although she was first on a board 3 years ago. This past week was her first time to the top of our local mountain. Two full years of learning how to ride paid off. She was able to make it down a 1000 vertical foot hill and fell only twice. I am just so happy. She is now constantly bugging me to take her out. Needless to say we went three times this past week.

I know it has been written some where on this site that some people believe that kids should start snow boarding a little older than five. Well I disagree 100% with that. My daughter started at 3 and after two years and about 15 times out she is riding well from the top of the mountain. She can only link heelside turns and use the falling leaf technique to ride but she can skate, buckle and unbuckle, and stand up facing both up and down the mountain. It took a long time for her to do all these things but she did them all by the age of five. The critics may say that this is not usual but I think that if you take the time and work hard with them, kids can learn how to ride by the age of 5.

[Rob Stevens]

I did say at one time that I didn't think you SHOULD get kids serious about snowboarding in their early years, not COULD.

You can teach the little rats anything they want to pick up. The question for me was one of physiology and the potential for developing an assymetrical physique.

I'm stoked for you that she's so into it... Riding with her will keep you young.

I had this crazy theory that got me flamed like a Johnsonville Bratwurst in another thread. I suggested that pre-teens should have a mild duck stance and feel comfortable turning in both directions, as opposed to purely directional riding. I'm not trying to pimp freestyle over alpine in any way... It would be just for the symmetrical development while they're still growing like weeds, daily.

What is her setup like?

[D-Sub]

I cant see 15 days on hill over 2-3 years or whatever affecting someone's development, but Rob's point seems to make some sense...

'sides...learning to ride duck/switch will get you in the olympics like Hannah or Shawn!

:)

jt...stoked for you, man. 2 more years and she'll be a carver ;)

[Gecko]

yeah I watched a 20something dad teaching his little boy to board thursday night...at first I as only paying attention so as to not hit them but as the night wore on I realized not only that dad was pretty good but that junior was learning to ride both ways. They were catamaraning all over the hill in very good control. this little kid is gonna rack in a few years.

[jtslalom]

The duck stance idea may not be a bad one in the sense that I would like to eventually teach her how to ride switch. In due time I'm sure this will happen but for now its just a matter of going down the hill with out falling. She has been my case all day to take her out, I love it. We will be out on Monday late aftenoon.

[Mike T]

My 4yo old mostly skis, be she has a board and some plate bindings that take her skis boots. She's set up duck and can heelslip and "go straight and crash". She's decided that she's sticking with skis for the rest of the season which is fine by me. As long as she is having fun.

I have to say I am a very proud daddy today though. There was a little 8-gate brush course set up on one of the beginner slopes today. My wife ran it on her board and then my daughter skied it. The first time through she missed two gates. The 2nd time she made all of them. The 3rd time she made them all again, but a lot faster. She didn't want to go on any other run all day. Woohoooooooooo!!!!!

She got very excited when I told her she can race with Mommy and Daddy in April and she gets to wear a racer bib.

[jnshapiro]

My 5yo is learning to ski this year. He's logged 6 days now and is having a blast! I really enjoyed the runs we took together today.

He's not ready for snowboarding. He doesn't have spacial awareness to know that there could be something going on behind him. I don't know if he'll be ready for it next year or not.

[Guest thomas_m]

My nine year old son has been riding since he was 5. Last year was the first year he could consistently link toeside & heelside turns on more difficult terrain, easy blues and such. Not that he didn't have the skills, more that riding toeside requires a lot of lower leg strength not usually present in little kids. What happened over the 3 first seasons was that he developed a high-speed version of the falling leaf and was able to ride fast in either direction.

This year, he's made great strides and is linking turns on steep double blacks. He rode a heavily mogulled Upper Internationale at Alpental, WA (our home hill) this weekend.

Angus "We went up chair 2 and down Internationale"

Me "huh? weren't there a lot of big moguls?"

Angus "yeah, they were fun"

Me "pretty steep, yeah?" (the top is mid/upper 40's, close to 50deg in spots)

Angus "yeah, it was fun"

Me "how did you handle the steep drop off to start the run"

Angus (now reading a comic book) "uhh, kind of sorta jumped it. It was fun. I want to go down the back country..."

Me "huh...?"

About the only thing he can't do very well is ride low angle pow as his 121cm board doesn't have enough float. But... he's got a 150 Fish waiting on him, his big sister(12 yrs) is riding it now but she'll probably step up next season.

T

[carvedog]

She can only link heelside turns

Link to what??????

There are some pretty good physical reasons why it is easier for little ones to ski than snowboard at early age. This has to do with how the biofeedback, nervous system and muscular system develops from the head out. Also has to do with proprioceptric balance ( the minds ability to abstract view the bodies position in 3d without seeing it )

So it is not that you cant' do it, it is just harder for them. I have had a five year old who could ollie three feet, and five year olds who couldn't lift the toeside of the snowboard at all.

As an example. Skiers tend to use the upper legs and quads more than ankles at early stages of skiing. Snowboarders have to use more ankle movements to control the board. Physically the muscles in the thighs develop earlier than the muscles in the lower leg.

My daughter is skiing at five and having a blast. Her first unattended time near the terrain park ( I can stand at the bottom and watch her when I have my two year old with me) she beelined it for the jumps and while not catching a ton of air she went over all the jumps, much to my surprise.

Earlier this winter she asked about snowboarding for the first time a couple of weeks ago so she will get to try that soon.

As long as you are having fun and building good experiences, go for it.

[Michael_A]

What carvedog says echoes my experience/reading---that the coordination/ankle muscles used for good boarding don't develop enough until age 8 or 9, as the body is developing from the core out. My 6-year-old learned how to ski pretty darn well in his first season age 5) but I've said "no" to boarding for a couple more years even though he really wants to do it.

Some of his little friends have tried boarding and taken a lot of lessons but are still frustrated (as are their parents who have to inch along with them).

Whereas I can carve on the greens and blues with my son skiing!

Michael

[Steve Prokopiw]

I saw this thread and couldn't help myself. I have a three year old boy who did nothing but cry and whine on skis and was simply unwilling to allow us to use edgy wedgies or a harness(he gets this streak from his mommy).It probably did not help that 'snowboard' was his first multi-syllable word as the 'rents are both board instructors.Well ,one day Mommy calls me at the shop to say "Guess who's snowboarding?!" As, of couse, the question was rhetorical, I replied"Oh man,is he ok?" "He's more than ok he's shockingly good at it!" We have a combined thirty years of teaching between us and in one session our three year old turned conventional wisdom on it's proverbial ear.

Our thing was going to be skiing until he's five,and most of the moms and dads we've taught before teaching their kids have wanted the groms to wait until seven or eight(we usually were able to get them to relent by the time kids were six)

Besides availability of properly sized equipment; physical coordination , attention span, and an actual desire to try it have always been the main factors for us deciding whether a child is ready to give it a whirl (in a one on one private of course).I have never heard of anything like physical imbalances or asymetry being a potential problem,but along those lines Evan just gets up and heads down the bunny slope whichever direction the board is pointed after he does his little toeside hand drag carve to a stop, which he figured out how to do within minutes during his first session.(yes, I said carve) After a little experimentation he is definitely goofy stance like mommy is (I'm regular), but that has not deterred him from getting up and starting off switch.It's quite simply more about looking in the direction of travel when initial balance is concerned. No, he does not yet really link turns but is very close and we don't force him to perform the falling leaf or garlands etc.Having a vastly improved and widened bunny slope/lift this year at Silver has helped due to it's safer width ,perfectly pitched slope and conveyor lift, otherwise I doubt we would be letting him board yet.

Undoubtedly,it also helps that he is very energetic and physically strong and coordinated.He also happens to be shorter than average and looks like a helmet with boots on when boarding.

It should be noted that his one year old brother,Nathan has been on one our backs for every run Evan has made on the bunny hill(five today,until the snow castle beckoned).Maureen walks in her soft boots with him on her back and I ride one footed in my hard boots when I've got him.He gets to say he started at one.

This post is merely about our experience so far and not meant to say we're right and everyone with a differing opinion is wrong...I am, of course, open to any questions or opinions. It's meant to say that three year old Evan is right because he truly wants to do it and in the end that is all that really matters.

[jtslalom]

CarveDog,

biofeedback, nervous system and muscular system develops from the head out. Also has to do with proprioceptric balance ( the minds ability to abstract view the bodies position in 3d without seeing it )

WHAT??

I don't know about any "biofeedback or proprioceptric balance," all I know is my daughter started at 3 and is very good at riding for a 5 year old. We went out 3 times last week and once so far this week. I think LEARNED muscle memory is the key word here. No offense but I don't really buy into that sort of stuff. My daughter is an average kid with average athleticism. I feel if I take her out snowboarding enough and make it fun, she will get it eventually. It just so happened that she did. I also think that this is true with most 3 - 5 year olds. If you take them out enough and make it fun, they will get it.

[carvedog]

jt - dude I didn't say you were doing anything wrong, and the fact that she is snowboarding 2-3 times a week tells me that she is far from "average" already. Just by being in an active family, or one that isn't glued to a tv for 8 hours a day, can lead to earlier and easiser physical activities in all forms. Whether you are into it or not, there is some pretty good science to it.

It is important in developing muscle memory, child development, traumatic injury recovery etc and for snowboarders ripping inverted 360 rodeo mctwist or some other stuff that I will never do. The minds sense of the space that the body occupies not related to what it can see.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proprioception

Pretty good description here. Think about a baby, your daughter for example. At age two months or so. She knows she has a head or what she visualizes as her control mechanism, she also knows that she has these other things that come into view once in a while that she knows are somehow connected to her but she doesn't know how.

Once they are gone from her view she kind of forgets about them except that they still give her some tactile feedback. That is why when kids are learning to feed themself and they try to hit the old piehole they may hit their forehead instead.

Once she has some conception of where her hand and arms when she can't see them is one of her first abstract thoughts.

So not busting on you at all and as I said as long as she is into it why not?

I have seen parents push their kids to do things before they are ready and that is a hard one for me.

Sometimes just seeing how much fun mom or dad is having is pretty strong motivation and they want to join in. Sounds like she is doing good. Have fun.

[pebu]

I'd like to think that my kids will be as comfortable on the snow (or I guess flying through the air) as they are walking. Even though I'd kinda like girls for some odd reason. And having a girl that is that good at snowboarding. There are gonna be so many punks after her. Yeah, I might have to rethink that..

[roscoe]

I started boarding in 4th grade, so about 9 or 10 - kind of late I guess. When I was learning to board, my brother started to pick up skiing, and he was only 4 or 5 at the time. I definitely agree that starting at about 4 or 5 is not too young, as he was able to start slowly, but picked it up really quickly, and now can really rip (all the while being in control)

However, I have even more respect for learning to board at that age - it definitely takes a lot more balance/rotation/power to learn to board, and those are some things that are hard to get a hold of at a young age. I've only seen a few kids that old learning to board, many more learning to ski - so congrats jtslalom, thats great.

[Rob Stevens]

For those of you with small rippers, as an experiment I would say that when you're getting them to turn, don't encourage one foot forward over the other.

Just let them turn both ways and if they gravitate towards one foot forward over the other, ask them if they can do it the other way just as well.

[jtslalom]

Good description CarveDog, good link.

[Dr D]

It is important in developing muscle memory, child development, traumatic injury recovery etc and for snowboarders ripping inverted 360 rodeo mctwist or some other stuff that I will never do. The minds sense of the space that the body occupies not related to what it can see.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proprioception

.

Proprioception is best understood as a program that gets stonger the more often that it is run. In that respect any motion is going to improve proprioception especially core strength and balance. certain motions obviously will improve when repeated ie (muscle memory) things like throwing a ball etc. we develop asymetrically anyway as lefties or righties and so on. I also doubt that a few days boarding will have any negative onesided impact on a youngsters development any more so than having them write with one hand only in kindergarten does.

Bottom line getting them out there in the first place is way more significant in our couch potato society. Get them out doing something and teach them to love active lifestyles.

[Jack M]

That's awesome.

I know it has been written some where on this site that some people believe that kids should start snow boarding a little older than five. Well I disagree 100% with that.

Heh, well, in my 4 years of part-time instruction, I saw exactly *one* kid under 7 learn successfully. Your daughter is clearly exceptional (congrats again).

Does falling leaf qualify as "snowboarding" though?

[jtslalom]

Can you teach pre-calculus to a young freshman. If that kid understands the basics of periodic functions how hard is it to apply that knowledge to the trig functions. How about if a kid grasps the idea of exponents and exponential functions, is it to difficult to then have them understand the inverse being the logarithm or for that matter Newtons laws of cooling or exponential decay. The answer to all of these questions is given a FIRM basic understanding a student can then use the ideas and concepts to other larger possibly more applicable ones. To answer your question, Does the falling technique qualify as snowboarding? You bet it does, especially to a 5 year old.

[Allee]

If they're using an edgie-wedgie or on a harness, snowplowing and not carving turns, they're still considered to be skiing. What's the difference? There's a whole heap of different ways to get down a slope, and if you're employing any one of them, then you're doing it. It's not always pretty, but that's not the point.

[carvedog]

so, this makes me think of two questions:

Are you "snowboarding" if you don't change edges?

Does the definition of "snowboarding" change based on the age of the participant?

Not saying I know the answers.

Don't ask that question of my two year old. She keeps wanting to go "skiing" but doesn't want to put her skis on when we get to the hill. I am still encouraging her and I don't tell her we are not going skiing just because of this small anomaly.

Same with snowboarding. Too many instructors (and some students) feel that they are not doing their job if their student isn't turning by the end of day one. My goal is to prevent the big slam, heelside edge control to stop, toeside edge control to stop, vary speed and angle of snowboard heel and two. That is a pretty good day for some. For smaller kids maybe only the first two. Or number one.

I did have a two year old who was absolutely insistent on snowboarding just like her big brother. I strapped her ski boots into the freestyle binders and ran down the hill backward in front of her. She didn't get on edge at all but rode a great flat board.

If you are working with adaptive riders or differently abled folks, then you have to change again. The whole result should be experience based not outcome based anyway.

I don't think you were giving jt a bad time just that definitions really don't mean squat if you are getting somebody outside, having fun and playing in the snow. If it is your daughter it is even better.

[Steve Prokopiw]

I am now even more proud of my three year old son Evan. Not because last Wednesday was his tenth session of three or more bunnyhill (500 feet long)runs on his board, but because today he learned to poop on the potty! Thank you Lord!

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

I am now even more proud of my three year old son Evan. Not because last Wednesday was his tenth session of three or more bunnyhill (500 feet long)runs on his board, but because today he learned to poop on the potty! Thank you Lord!

Congrats Steve!! It is all going to happen so fast from here on out! Good meeting you and Matt at OES. Glad your home safe. Bryan

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Photos of these "Mini Shredders" ?? Skiers and Snowboarders. They are just so cool!