What cant/lift do you use?

[Thor VonRippington]

Once again... the light comes on slowly. Thanks for the explanation Jim!

When I see a skier with his knees together... skidding back and forth on the tails of the skis... I always laugh to myself and think: That noodler looks like a complete tard. Now it seems I might be a noodler on a board. I'll find out for sure next time I ride. Even though I have ridden hard boots since they were first made, this is all new to me (then again BOL is relatively new for me too)... but it makes good sense. Sitting here at the moment... it seems like the only time my knees aren't over my feet is during a heel side turn... at which time my back knee is driving forward and down toward the back edge. Now I can go over to that "angry" thread and (after wading through the BS) maybe learn something.

I just hope this is not like the time I took a golf lesson after years of playing and couldn't hit decent ball for months after.

[eastcoasticerider]

I know they look like a metal shop class project and grand master Eric Beckmann refuses to patent these devises but if you can get ahold of a set they can revolutionize your riding especially in small snowparks around home. they bolt and drill right to the RacePlates and are almost invisible .......then you can experiemnt with degrees of lift with variable thicknesses of supplied metal wedges. I think eric should sell the idea to Burton or someone should buy a patent for this idea. Its so simple and elegant.Especially for the beginning carver.

[stevo]

I am a new hardbooter (many years softbooting) with about 50 days. I seems to me that canting has more of an effect on my riding than lift does. I have settled on outward canting of about 1* for each foot with 3* toe lift in front and 6* heel lift in back (TD2 Cant Disks).

Here is one reason: I take my 20" stance and put my feet at my 60* angles and align my shoulders square with my binding angles. If I measure the distance between my knees parallel to my shoulders I get approx 10"-11". Now if I measure the distance between my hip joints (about where the ball and sockets are) I get approx 12"-13". So my hips are farther apart than my knees...the outward canting lines up my joints. It just feels better this way too. As the angles get steeper the distance between the knees gets smaller and at shallower angles the distance gets greater measured like above. Lower angles I will us no cant and inward canting only seems to work at angles <50* for me.

There are many more reasons for using outward canting (including ankle range of motion) in an article written by Eric Beckman from Sugarloaf USA. I am not sure if he would allow me to post it publicly but if you are interested you can contact him. And of course Jack's article in the tech section!

I hope all the gurus and coaches will keep posting their ideas. I really appreciate them taking the time to share their advice..especially to a nube like me.

[philw]

I think there's only one test of all this, which is how well you can ride with the system set up that way.

I have read Jack's stuff and it's all good, but when it comes down to it you need to fiddle with your board/boots/binding combination on the piste until you get it right. And I do mean all of those things... the last time I changed my binding set-up was a consequence of changing boots (from worn-out 225s or whatever they were to Indys).

I note that you can of course cant your boots or your bindings, and there's also boot forward lean and flex to consider.

For me, I feel that the main thing is to make sure I can get the pressure I need to the front of the board (toeside) and to the back (heelside). If I ride flat I can easily achieve that by selectively leaning the boots (back foot fully leant-forward/ front foot fully upright, all locked and loaded of course). With stiffer boots I found I liked more wedge. I ride with my bindings and boots locked down.

A few years ago I had some trouble with various powder boards with huge minimum stances (Salomon were particularly nasty). Wedges help that, but not as much as using boards with narrower stances. I'm not tall.

On the "knees" business, I'm afraid I never rode like that in the first place. But maybe the people who did were emulating something they'd seen or been told about. Maybe there's something to learn there ;-)

[Rob Stevens]

Look at weight lifters on the squat rack... Knees apart for full range of motion.

Strength can play a big role in a riders preference for riding knees together / apart. If you are strong, you can take advantage of having your knees apart as you can resist the G's through muscular contraction.

If your legs aren't as developed, you may default to knees together as the "tripod" will lock out your flexion at a certain point. The problem with this is that unless you have good technique and can stay "stacked", the downward force has to go somewhere and riders with an undeveloped sense of stance and balance can wind up bending at the waist.

As to the cant and lift (not rise) question, I ride flat front and rear. My knees, however, are straight and solid, so I have no pysiological need for cant or lift, nor do I have any pain associated from doing this. I also find that any inward disposition of the binders can result in the setup putting your knees together. When I move my knees from center, I want to have an immediate reaction from the board. If my knees are made to be closer together through cant or lift, I find that the same amount of movement that I would use uncanted, can put me in a compromised position (knees too far in and too close together for my liking). I do like a good riser now and again, though (if it's icy).

When I was covering the World Cup for CBC, I met a few racers who rode flat for the same reasons and I found it interesting that the EC guys run this setup, too. Maybe Nils can ask them why they do it like they do. I saw a comment from Jack regarding the tension they must run their bails at (presumably to allow side side movement of the boots?). For the same reasons I use no cant or lift, I keep my bail tensions at the reccommended pressure.

The warning I'll give to all of the above is that I'm primarily a softboot freerider, so I like flat bindings with wide knees. As a CASI 4, however (I hate bringing that up... I always feel like such a poseur) I have had to retain a fairly high proficiency in hardboots.