Carving the crowds -- meaty slalom gates...

[carvedog]

Nah.... go ahead "we name names!" (ala Seinfeld Hop Sings)

I will name names.

Sun Valley, Idaho.

There are runs that I have gone to midday, mid week with no one on them as far as the eye can see ( I have 20/20) up to a half a mile away. No one anywhere and still great, midday groom.

Yahhh, Yahhh you betcha.

[trikerdad]

I think the difference between being a T-boner and a T-bonee is about half a millisecond!

[Bullwings]

How can you Tbone a kid who is uphill from you? If he hit you he would be the Tboner and you would be the Tboneee.

And vice versa. :smashfrea

not necessarily. if you're transitioning between carves and perpendicular to the fall line, you can easily T-Bone someone else, just about as easily as they can t-bone you...

[NMU Alpine Boarder]

Another question about avoiding close calls:

Last season, I was riding an intermediate slope, and a not so good skier pulls out in front of me at a trail intersection... I was able to break into a skid, and avoid contact, but still had the momentum to pass him... I yelled "Passing on the Right!" as I pulled up behind him... He looks back and right, and eats it... HARD... I stop and see if he's ok.... He is ok, but then proceeded to lay into me for "distracting" him.... I take what the guy has to say, and apoligize, and ride off... Same guy would give me dirty looks for the remainder of the day in lift lines and in the chalet....

When overtaking, what is the proper ettiquite? I know as the overtaking (uphill) rider, it's my responsibility, but with lower level riders, would yelling like this be a distraction? I always would give a heads up as to which side I was overtaking on, but since this incident, I have been having second thoughts....

[Allee]

... but he can't ski and listen at the same time? That's just stupid.

Calling is good. To me, it tells me to keep my line, that I'm about to be overtaken. Which is much better than being taken out.

[DiveBomber]

... but he can't ski and listen at the same time? That's just stupid.

Calling is good. To me, it tells me to keep my line, that I'm about to be overtaken. Which is much better than being taken out.

Just get your MP3 player and some speakers and play the same sound that the Snowcats make :lol:

[paappraiser]

I dont think people know left from right at the speed that anyone rides here.

I think it just easier to say 'passing you' ... RFL

Most will stay on their line (more or less)

[Neil Gendzwill]

If the person in front of me seems competent, I'll call "on your left(right)" but if they're obviously a beginner I'll just cruise by with as much distance as I can make. They can be startled, or mishear the call to be "move left".

[carvedog]

not necessarily. if you're transitioning between carves and perpendicular to the fall line, you can easily T-Bone someone else, just about as easily as they can t-bone you...

Due to the lateral forces involved I think that would be a sidebone.

[NMU Alpine Boarder]

... but he can't ski and listen at the same time? That's just stupid.

Calling is good. To me, it tells me to keep my line, that I'm about to be overtaken. Which is much better than being taken out.

I'm more worried about the "Startle" factor here... The guy heard me, looked, and caught an edge.... He wasn't expecting to hear anything....

[JJFluff]

'Straightliners', both snowboarders and skiers, are what send me home early. I have no problem carving around the human obstacles below me but, hate the ones that are nowhere to be seen when I check up the hill then go flying by me 5 seconds later. I've been hit, and had too many near misses, by the idiots that bomb straight down the hill. I try to be on the mountain and ride my favorite steeper runs when the lifts open then, when the staightliners scare me off, I move to the green runs where there are a lot of slow people but not many crazies.

Right on. These guys are by far the most dangerous. Both to themselves and others. Fifteen years ago I was taken down by a out of control skier. She was about 12 years old. I was 15 or sixteen. I caught my front edge so hard it snaps my face into the surface and snapped by jaw between my two front teeth,and in the process poked a hole through my upper lip. I lost consciousness, and can't remember the incident. But I did end up with two black eyes, and a concussion. Needless to say, I am very paranoid about riding in front of or around anybody. I always like to follow traffic, and and my little tiny home hill, I'll usually wait out a crowd, and go when traffic is low.

[gdboytyler]

I've never been to the east coast, so i don't know what crowds look like there, but if anyone has been to Snow Summit or Mt. High in SoCal, now would be a great time to chime in. I try to go to mammoth whenever i can, but that isn't something i can do every weekend.

Silver Peak at Bear Mtn is the least crowded and has some of the best carving terrain in So Cal.

Once it gets crowded, I switch to my freestyle board and join the kids at the half-pipe.

[carverboy]

Riding in the south east,( Beech and Sugar Mt. N.C )crowds are a fact of life.

Personally I have found that trying to announce yourself to beginner/cautious skier/boarders is a recipe for disaster. After years off watching skiers in crowds you def. can begin to see patterns of turns in down hill riders that will allow you to discreen a safer line around them. The key is being in control of yourself and having sufficent speed when overtaking in order to ensure your abiltity to pass smoothly. if you put on the brakes and slow down in a crowd you will find your line controlled (ie. shunted left or right or worse case stopped) by those in front leaving you wide open to be plowed from behind.

[AaronG]

Bullwings, I ride my 179cm Prior 4WD for the SoCal scene, it has a 10.5 scr and if you lay some weight in tip you can make it turn much tighter. I also use a 178 Volkl RT there. I have yet to break out the Oxy185 for Summit though. I use that up in Mammoth or June where you have lots of room to ride.

Yeah, I wouldn't even think about using a 18-19 scr at the local resorts.

[Bullwings]

Exactly.

Similar to an auto accident, you hit them in the rear, YOU ARE GUILTY.

Save the excuses, it is of no interest. It is your reponsiblity. PERIOD!!!!

aye, you gotta love the f*cktard that cuts you off then immediately slams on his breaks.

either that or the f*cktard that's going 60mph in his huge SUV blocking any sort of vision of the road in front of him. and then he cuts off the people in the lane to your right because the traffic right in front of him stopped... thus leaving you with this nice wall that came out of nowhere :angryfire

[ar(angel]

I was present when Trikerdad got nailed by a straight liner last season. We were making runs together and I had stopped at the top of a rise to watch Bill go down the run when these two idiots go blowing past me on both sides, one of them heading straight for Bill. I yelled, but to no avail, by the time Bill looked uphill the little turdball was on top of him as he tried a last second "hop" to get over Bills board....it didn't work. The kid caught his tip on the top edge of Bills Coiler and it sent the kid summersaulting down the run. Than the little jackass gets up and doesn't even say "sorry" and skins-out down the hill. By the time we got to the bottom they were long gone. The only thing that coulda made it worse was if he had plowed straight into Bill.....he never would have recovered....the kid that is, Bill's somewhere in the neighborhood of 6'2" 225lbs. I've got 3 kids that ride (ages 11-16) and my biggest fear is them getting hit by one of these no brain morons. Ride with your head up and always be aware of your surroundings, it may not prevent this kind of thing from happening, but any kind of prevention is better than nothing.

[FTA2R]

where are you riding in DC?

I ride in Southern PA ("SoPA"), about 1.5 - 2 hours north of here, depending on destination. a few VA resorts, and 1 md resort, but general consensus is SoPA is the best for day trips (1 card gives us access to all 3 diff't resorts)

How can you Tbone a kid who is uphill from you? If he hit you he would be the Tboner and you would be the Tboneee.

And vice versa.

he was uphill and i was turning / traversing toeside (to the left) and we collided. he was fine, my new Donek chipped, though. Someone earlier mentioned "that guy" who comes out of nowhere when you turning heelside- that can be scary.

as we all know, we have to be very careful b/c we make wider turns. i'm curious though, who is technically at fault when a t-bone incident or other similar collission happens. carver is technically in front, but is going across run, softboarder / skiier going much more down the run.

[Baka Dasai]

When it's genuinely crowded it becomes almost impossible for me to carve turns cos I need a bit of speed to carve, and there isn't the room for the stopping distance that a bit of speed necessitates.

Strangely enough, it's when it's fairly empty that I have most problems with collisions. The emptyish conditions encourage the straight-liners and other high-speed virtual fall-liners, and they constantly threaten to take me out from behind.

When it's only moderately crowded the straight-liners are too scared to straight-line, and I get a bit more comfortable because the only thing I have to worry about is the people in front of me - and I'm confident enough that I can avoid them.

[Blackbird]

I agree with the few that call out " On Your Left" or "On Your Right,

Got into the habit of not yelling at the people you're about to overtake, then you just scare the crap out of them and they just fall over.....

Straight liners and careless knuckle draggers p#ss me off no end.. What's the deal with trying to show the world you can do Mach 6 down a run just to overtake an individual who is minding his own business....And at close range.

I just don't get it....Maybe my fear glands have developed to maturity, but damn we all love bombing but surely some people need to sit down and use their heads!

As well as these numbnuts, what p#sses me off too are the brain dead, moronic imbeciles that stop to have a chat in a blind spot just after a kicker ... exactly where you are supposed to land...

Few years ago two older gentlemen decide to stop right after a rather large kicker myself and a few freeriding buddies made...

It was out of the way on a black run so we're thinking, it'll be ok... no inexperienced skiers/riders will come through here.

We all filter down catch the lift back up and decide to jump off this thing all afternoon.....

I take the first run go off this thing, and before I go on I'll share that its a good flight of about 35-40 feet from the lip of this kicker to the lovely down sloping landing... and the speed you pick up was unbelievable.. . anyways... the two gentlemen stopped about 5 feet down from the point of my re-entry. I saw them whilst in the air... yelled out some expletives along the lines of "In coming"

I had 4 feet between them to aim for and what do you know? I rocketed right between them and performed several cartwheels due to my imbalance in trying to avoid killing these guys.

I'll give you one guess who got all the abuse....

Still it's a good price to pay than making these idiots part of the yearly Darwin Awards....

Scary stuff.

I'm sure this has happened to most people both on Skis and Boards but it's something that really opens your eyes and makes you think.

[Guest]

Pretty much the only time I saw "on your left/right" is on catwalks or other narrow flat terrain. Other than that, there really is no need to say it: just pass and be done with it. If you're close enough to say that to them while passing on a normal trail, you're too close.

[Guest stoked]

one time about to ride that perfectly groomed steep part of a hill a ski instuctor on spare time entering the hill from the top and myself entering it lower from the side were both at speed and ready to enjoy that otherwise not crowded piece of slope when we saw each other and both hit the brakes even though we were rather far apart but it was about using the whole hill for our rides

so no one ended up enjoying that hill and it was somewhat unnecessary that we both had stopped so we smiled at each other from a distance and it was strange enough a nice moment I guess about not having to worry about each other even though of course our precaution had ruined our runs

[Mike T]

Pretty much the only time I saw "on your left/right" is on catwalks or other narrow flat terrain. Other than that, there really is no need to say it: just pass and be done with it. If you're close enough to say that to them while passing on a normal trail, you're too close.

I like saying it to gapers who are "Brownian" or "Heisenberg" skiiing because it gers them to freeze rather than cut across the trail in some random direction :D

(Sorry for the geeky physics talk, it's such a perfect description though!)

[willywhit]

one time about to ride that perfectly groomed steep part of a hill a ski instuctor on spare time entering the hill from the top and myself entering it lower from the side were both at speed and ready to enjoy that otherwise not crowded piece of slope when we saw each other and both hit the brakes even though we were rather far apart but it was about using the whole hill for our rides

so no one ended up enjoying that hill and it was somewhat unnecessary that we both had stopped so we smiled at each other from a distance and it was strange enough a nice moment I guess about not having to worry about each other even though of course our precaution had ruined our runs

ain't that just the BEST ? You first, no, you go first. Uncrowded wide open terrain. The "all knowing" gesture and the nod. Hard to throw up the shaka with gloves on so I usually just throw up the horns or just a fist.

Happens on the water all the time. It's YOUR wave...TAKE IT !

[Neuffy]

Problems from non-carvers (well, usually, hopefully):

- People not understanding the "blind spot" on heelside. I actually sliced a goodly portion out of someone's (new, very pricy HEAD) skis because he came _way_ too close while I was carving hard on heelside (and yes, all my turns up to that point had been predictable, uniform carves).

-- People who perform large jumps without having a spotter. This is just reprehensible. You _have_ to have someone slowly go down to check the landing before you jump. Yes, theoretically no one should be in the landing from a kicker or any other terrain, but it happens - it isn't always obvious where the landing is, or that somebody would be jumping over a given terrain feature. It is the responsibility of the jumper to confirm that the landing is clear before jumping.

My general policy is to _not_ say that I'm coming, but simply to pass as safely and with as much distance as is possible. (Same with biking on a bike path.) I'm just afraid that people will move the wrong way. It seems they usually do. Those below should pretty much never yield to those above, also. Yielding increases the incidence of accidents, as the those who yield will get in the way of those who are coming from behind/above, and have realigned their motion to go for the empty spot (which the yielder just moved to...).

If it is a narrow trail (and I cannot get by), however, I will inform them of my presence and request that they move to one side.

bullwings - um...no, just no. If the SUV is going 60 mph then why the hell are _you_ going 60 mph right behind them? Minimum 4 second interval at 60 mph, remember? No, you don't need to follow this, but it is _entirely_ your fault if an accident occurs. It is perfectly all right for me to slam on my brakes for _any_ reason, at _any_ time. It is your responsibility to not be following too closely.

That wall didn't come out of nowhere...you were following too close, and going too fast. The person in the rear _always_ is at fault. Same as the uphill person on the hill.

Things certainly become more complex when we add in carvers though...considering how much time we spend moving sideways on the hill...Although, if you're still on a slope, I feel that the one who is uphill is at fault, regardless (unless of course someone is going uphill....).

Oh, and yeah. Straightliners are just scary, I agree.

[Bullwings]

Problems from non-carvers (well, usually, hopefully):

bullwings - um...no, just no. If the SUV is going 60 mph then why the hell are _you_ going 60 mph right behind them? Minimum 4 second interval at 60 mph, remember? No, you don't need to follow this, but it is _entirely_ your fault if an accident occurs. It is perfectly all right for me to slam on my brakes for _any_ reason, at _any_ time. It is your responsibility to not be following too closely.

That wall didn't come out of nowhere...you were following too close, and going too fast. The person in the rear _always_ is at fault. Same as the uphill person on the hill.

the wall comes when he SWITCHES lanes. i can't see what in front of him. even if i am 4 seconds behind, if traffic in front of him is at a DEAD stop and he still keeps going 60mph, i have no idea that traffic is at a dead stop because he's so fricken huge that he blocks my vision.

then, when he cuts over to the lane on his right at the very last second, that leaves me with this wall in front of me that's at a dead stop, not COMING to a stop or BRAKING hard, but NOT MOVING at all because it hasn't been moving for a while... 4 seconds (and the rule isn't 4 seconds here anymore either. more like 2 or 3) isn't gonna save you front that... so, you don't smash the SUV that was in front of you, but rather, the car in front of him... either way, i've yet to actually smash the person in front, i've just seen it happen on the freeway 2x. i dunno, it's stupid LA driving.

also, there's still the guy that cuts you off then slams on his brakes immediately. try driving in LA where they try to stage accidents all the time.