Guest pat Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 what exactly does folding the nose mean?..... sorry for asking but I dont seem all that up to date with all these terms. From what I read it sounds like what I call an involountary stoppie ... or ''planter ben red'' in french ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ealely Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 or ''planter ben red'' in french ... Sorry but for me doesn't ring a bell in french Do u mean stoppie like some frontflips? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinecure Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 Folding the nose happens when you put too much of your weight on your forward foot. This is compounded when the board edge gets good purchase on the snow, either because the snow is soft, or firm and you have really sharp edges (especially if you haven't de-tuned a bit at the tip). Combine issues like your height, weight, speed, board flex and body position (in addition to weight) and you have the potential to fold the nose. The idea is that you almost literally fold the nose of the board over on itself. Of course this isn't actually possible unless you break the board, but it will flex pretty far before one of a couple things happens. With soft boards and hard boots (and a strong rider) you often feel the board folding on you before it becomes a problem. I've noticed this the few times I've tried freestyle type boards. The two things I've experienced when folding the nose: 1) The board builds incredible amounts of energy as you flex it further and further. The energy needs to go somewher. One option is that the edge simply releases, usually causing the board to slide out from under you (you lose your edge), and in my case sending me superman-style sliding along the snow for a long ways. The last time this happened to me in any notable way was when I was demoing a short freeride board that was probably a bit too soft for me. I dumped at probably 45mph and slid a good 75 yards. I got a lot of laughs from the other carvers there. In the board's defense, I think I put too much of my weight forward when I'm trying to ride really fast and really low (showing off for other carvers). 2) All that power releases, but the edge holds the snow nicely. This has happened to me bot in firm spring conditions on a toe-side turn and in firm-almost icy- conditions on a heelside in a race. The nose of the board bites down into the snow so the edge can't really release. Eventually the board is flexed in an arc that's much smaller than any that the rest of the board (and my body) could follow. At the same time the board is slowing down much faster than my body so the forward weight issue is compounding itself. At just about the time your face is really close to the snow/tip, the pressure releases, flipping you unceremoneously over the nose. In my experience, the firmer the snow, the more powerful the launch/flip - and of course the more painful the landing. In soft snow it just stretched my muscles and ligaments and made me laugh pretty hard afterward. On ice it didn't stretch my muscles as much (it was a heelside turn), but I flipped pretty high and landed very hard on my back. I bruised my sacrum and had to take a week off. Most of the time, you'll experience this if you ride a board that's too soft for you, or your form needs attention. I probably fall into the latter category. I wish I had video of the two more memorable/dramatic of these experiences for me. It really is amazing how much power the board can generate and then release. Luckily it doesnt' happen to me very often. Of course if the nose doesn't flex/fold, you auger in. I've done that too - but mostly in powder. (for those that don't know - an auger is a big drill bit - augering in means to go straight into the snow). Here's a pic of me augering in during a big crash (it covered almost 200yards from start to finish) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ealely Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 Ok now I see better what this is about...happened to me last winter, first big surprise and then big fear for my board! I have no picture but Sinecure you look much worse thant I did:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinecure Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 Oh yeah. Plante (or maybe planter?) bien raide in ski/snowboard context would mean you got slammed hard into the ground. Planter is the same as it sounds (plant). Bien is "good" or "well" and Raide means either steep or stiff. In a non-ski context it would probably mean you were wronged in some way. Is there a French-English idiom translater somewhere? Putting this kind of thing into bablefish doesn't help much. I came out of that crash just fine. And that wasn't a case of folding the nose. It was just stupidity/bad judgement. I dropped off a 5 ft cornice and missed my edge-set on my initial turn / landing. From there gravity took over and I cartwheeled down the very steep bowl. My glasses fell off, but everything else (save my pride - I was with 18 really good skiers) was fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Pushee Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 Season before last, I came over a roller while going too fast for a new trail. The back side of the roller dropped out from under me as I transitioned to toeside (regular footed). When I finally got the board back on the snow, I got too much edge with my weight forward. I got catapulted - feet going up, head coming down. I landed on the point of my left shoulder - and my AC joint is history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ealely Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 yeah ....The 'Planté/planter bien raide' sounds much more familiar now...(indeed) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinecure Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 I have folded the nose of a 4807, but not with any bad results. It is a softer nose so its not hard to get it to flex. However, the boat nose makes the forward edges a bit off-camber so they don't grab as hard as they would if they weren't canted. Also, you are usually riding that board in soft snow. I got the nose to begin to fold when back on the piste near the bottom and I was experimenting to see how hard you could carve it. I pushed it much harder than I normally would push that board. You'd have to try hard to fold the nose in any serious manner on a 4807 in normal conditions. The only scenario where I could envision being able to really fold it would be in dust-on-crust where you could get good bite into the crust - but in that case, almost any board could fold up if it bit hard enough into the crust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derf Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 Sorry for non-French speaking, but here goes: "Folding the nose", ça veut dire quand la section complète de ta planche à l'avant des fixations plie tellement que ça t'arrête. Ça peut arriver si tu mets trop de pression sur l'avant de la planche et que l'avant de la planche est trop mou pour ça. L'effet de "folding the nose", c'est de planter ben raide!;) On a sidenote, is it considered "folding the nose" when the nose digs in hardpacked snow (too much pressure) and sends you spinning out of the carve? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vigilante76 Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 Oh yeah. Plante (or maybe planter?) bien raide in ski/snowboard context would mean you got slammed hard into the ground. Planter is the same as it sounds (plant). Bien is "good" or "well" and Raide means either steep or stiff. In a non-ski context it would probably mean you were wronged in some way. Is there a French-English idiom translater somewhere? Putting this kind of thing into bablefish doesn't help much. I came out of that crash just fine. And that wasn't a case of folding the nose. It was just stupidity/bad judgement. I dropped off a 5 ft cornice and missed my edge-set on my initial turn / landing. From there gravity took over and I cartwheeled down the very steep bowl. My glasses fell off, but everything else (save my pride - I was with 18 really good skiers) was fine. Babelfish won't help you much. "Planter bien raide" is more of a Quebecer's slang... and also mis-typed by the original poster. Victor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleaman Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 and when you fold your nose on your board, when you hit the ground, it feels like someone picked you up by the feet and swung you over their shoulders back into the ground like you could do with a sledge hammer hitting a rock. It is the few times I actually saw stars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 and when you fold your nose on your board, when you hit the ground, it feels like someone picked you up by the feet and swung you over their shoulders back into the ground like you could do with a sledge hammer hitting a rock. It is the few times I actually saw stars. god I just got nauseous thinking about this, and it hasnt happened since season before last! I think I almost broke my leg right at the boot cuff that time, too. Hurt like hell. Might have even cracked it cuz it hurt inside like inside the bone for a few weeks. can you crack a bone but still be able to walk, ride, etc? in your shin? sheesh. no more nose-folding for ME! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullwings Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 god I just got nauseous thinking about this, and it hasnt happened since season before last!I think I almost broke my leg right at the boot cuff that time, too. Hurt like hell. Might have even cracked it cuz it hurt inside like inside the bone for a few weeks. can you crack a bone but still be able to walk, ride, etc? in your shin? sheesh. no more nose-folding for ME! yeah, you can. Hair line fractures or shin splints ring a bell?? it's usually runners that get shin splints, although given the right force i'm sure you could put a stress/hairline fracture /shin splint in your leg folding the nose on your board (especially with hard boots. soft booters normally get ankle injuries instead, but hard boots lock all that up and redirect the force to your shins right above your boot). not much you can do about them though, at least not that i know of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoarderYUL Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 Happened to me once with my old Kemper Asym 167. Too soft, too small for me. I saw loooooots of stars at that time... Hope it never happens again ! Pour les francos, j'ai crissement planté ben raide ! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pat Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 i wrote it like it is said , its not a spelling mistake ... just wanted to clear that up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pat Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 as for the translation, ''planter ben red'' can be put very simply into ''the board stopped freakin fast kinda on its own'' projecting you into a whirl of sky, snow, sky, snow .... then a big thump and maybe a second shot at augering if your unlucky (side effects may include: a few missing seconds thereafter, drowziness, inability to read the next day ...... investing in a helmet in my case) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vigilante76 Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 Heh. "ben" and "red" aren't in my French dictionnary. But hey, I'm not trying to play the spelling police here anyway, and everybody got the point. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 Sounds like "auger in" in west-coast canadian speak. I've two stories here... (1) Riding a Nitro Scorpion in deep BC powder. I hit a burried log with the nose of the board on a pretty steep slope. I went over the top and didn't suffer any damage. The nose of the board was flapping about though - I could ride it down but that was about it. Was not a happy boarder, especially as the nearest slalom board was probably thousands of miles away. [This is not another reason no to ride silly boards in the wrong conditions.] (2) I augered in on a heli-accessed glacier in 2000. The snow was definitely marginal breakable crust: conditions I'm familiar with and should have handled. For reasons I can't remember I was laying down some fairly extreme carves; I think it was the first open stuff/ sunlight I'd seen that year. Anyway, I put the nose of my Supermodel into that stuff and it didn't come out. I did some kind of weird pirouette whilst thinking "if this doesn't stop soon I'm going to take some serious damage". It didn't and I did. I blew the gubbins out of my Rachlie 225s on the front ankle, and blew the ankle away to. The former cost about $5 to fix thanks to Blue Tomato; the latter cost me $50 in DF118s, four days helicopter time, plus a bit of physio once I got home. Lessons learnt: if you're riding in dodgy snow, don't get flashy. be especially careful of breakable crust/ "upside down" snow etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pat Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 this one could have been avoided easily. Here it goes, I was boarding at cascades (not whisltler but hey!) on a burton ALP 163, it was late febuary about 0 degrees all day (don`t ask, this kinda freak temp. is normal for ottawa) anyways, about 6 o`clock the temperature started getting a little colder and it was getting harder to dig trenches so I got a little more agressive. Turns out that was the wrong idea. I had a lesson at 7, come 6:30 im blasting down, carving on heelside when all of a sudden the board stopped.... nose jammed into a 6 inch deep frozen rut ..... here is where I get unlucky, board stops, augers in once, did a few acrobatic maneuvers (or uncontrolled flips if thats what you wanna call it) then the backside augered in again acting as a pivot slamming me back first into the snow/ice. I blacked out for a few seconds, saw stars, got back up and tought my lesson. Next day I went and bought a helmet ....... moral of the story : always wear a &?%/""* helmet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgang Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 Here is my story....Was at one of the Burton Demo days when Mountain Creek was still Vernon Valley. Wanted to try hard boots for the first time. Took out a FP159A. The guy setting up the board gave me a few pointers...one of them being "you have to put you weight over the front of the board"...well green trail carving pretty good and then bam...folded the nose and went face first into the snow...finish the run and when I got back to the Tent the guy ask me if I went over the nose.....I said yes how did he know....He says everybody does that the first time out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 Here is my story....Was at one of the Burton Demo days when Mountain Creek was still Vernon Valley. Wanted to try hard boots for the first time. Took out a FP159A. The guy setting up the board gave me a few pointers...one of them being "you have to put you weight over the front of the board"...well green trail carving pretty good and then bam...folded the nose and went face first into the snow...finish the run and when I got back to the Tent the guy ask me if I went over the nose.....I said yes how did he know....He says everybody does that the first time out... Well , at least everyone HE instructed!! At some point perhaps he modified his instructions about weighting the nose? "Folding the Nose" = "Taco The Nose" Or the dreaded "Pole Vault" It is the sudden stop that hurts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Smith Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 How not to buy a board I'd borrowed a "Chris Klug" custom Burton (185, 15mr). I'm approaching the pitch, pass my Daughter, who's yelling "slow down". I look over my shoulder... When I come to rest my "new" board is flapping its shovel. My custom 'glass repair has worked for two seasons. The shovel bears the text; "The launch pad" ps, It's my favorite frieght train Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neuffy Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 I have determined that my Coiler AM177 doesn't know how to fold the nose, thank god. Unfortunately, I tried another board. Apparently I can't just jump onto a 158 slalom board and ride it like the Coiler. At Panorama, my first time on the itty bitty board. Hard snow, nose dug in, I managed to flip a few times before faceplanting. My helmet was the only thing that converted my probable (second) broken nose into just pain. (Helmet part over forhead arrested my faceplant partway into hardpack.) I've decided that I don't need anything that carves tighter than the Coiler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted October 19, 2006 Report Share Posted October 19, 2006 I have determined that my Coiler AM177 doesn't know how to fold the nose, thank god. Every Coiler I've ridden (all 4 of them) has a rather stiff nose and I've never folded any of them. Especially true of the AMs. However I bet it can be done and if you manage to do it, it's even less pretty than usual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted October 19, 2006 Report Share Posted October 19, 2006 Neuffy you still have that AM? Decided to stick with it, huh? good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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