icebiker

While we're on the subject of alternate breakage, here are some of the bike frames I've broken:

Hey Newcarver, me thinks that if you plan to ride the terrain you say, you'll want to up the ante on your spend if you can push your budget. For an FS (full susp) bike, expect to spend about $1,300 on up. That will give you a solid frame, good shock and fork, and components that will take some abuse. You'll pay a slight weight penalty (maybe 3-4 lbs more than an SRAM XX or Shimano XTR equipped bike), but for noobie to intermediate riders, it's a good compromise. If you can get to $2,000, you have an even wider range of options. Here are some other factors to consider: Manufacturer: The big companies (Specialized, Cannondale, Giant, Trek, etc) typically come with lifetime frame warranties. If you ride nasty terrain, that's a good insurance policy. They also have more buying power, so you get more for your money parts-wise. Smaller/boutique brands typically have 2 year warranties (Salsa being the exception at 5, IIRC) Your dimensions: If you're tall (say 6' +) consider a 29'er bike (29" wheels vs the standard 26"). While they are a bit heavier than an equivalent 26'er, they tend to roll over technical terrain better. Bike shop: If you buy from a bike shop, they'll set you up right, fit-wise (including swapping stems, bars, seats, etc). I can't stress enough how important it is to get the right fit on your bike. If you buy mail order or via classifieds, you'll spend more $$ and more time (which is measured in $$ ;-)) trying to get it to fit. I've been there, done that... Demo: Good bike shops will have some models to demo. If you're looking at FS bikes, good idea to arrange a demo of a few models...as there are many different suspension designs out there, each with their +'s and -'s. Hope this helps!

VERY COOL!!!!! :biggthump:biggthump

Well, yesterday was a true revelation for me. I went to Windham, NY for likely my last day of the season. Conditions were LG over a hard icy base. I had my new 225's on (only my second day on them), and some Race Plates I bought from a fellow BOL member (much more solid than the "Performance" plates I had. Haven't picked up an alpine board yet (have the whole summer to research that), so I stuck with my "freeride/AM" Yukon 172. Now, I've been riding for years (since mid-late 80's), and carving a little less than 15, but that's been in soft boots and 3-straps. To this point, I've always strayed from ice, simply skidded my way down when it's hard conditions. Could never hold a carve. Never thought it was possible. Well, needless to say, I was wrong. Even with my 225s (softer than most hardboots) and my Yukon (not really a carving board, as I learned on my first day with plates), I found myself railing perfect "C"s just as well as when in PP conditions, if not better. So little effort required, such an unbelievable feeling!! Went the whole day without any thigh burn, managed to get much lower to the snow than I ever could. It's like my riding just went to "11" . I can only imagine what it'll be like when I get a proper carving board. I plan to go to Breck next season...with the wide trails out west, I don't think I'm going to be thinking of much else this summer;). I've asked alot of questions on here, and you all have been a huge help. I'm sure I'll have more, but wanted to thank you all again for your guidance. Perhaps one day I'll make it to SES, meet a few of you, and get some hands on technique tips.

Haven't been there since mid-90's...but do recall it was fun. Back then I hadn't really developed any carving skill, thanks to a overly long board with a big sidecut and riding with Sorel Caribou boots:eek: But, I hear you on your last point...on steeps I'm not good for any more than a few turns either. Wide blues though, are heaven. Trouble is, I only recall narrow trails at Whiteface, so glad you found a few wider ones.

pm sent on the 2 oxygens. thanks

NW...not sure if you got my PM, but if you are a 14 (as am I) and still looking for boots, try the Deeluxe 225 or 325's in size 31...On sale at BOL: http://www.bomberonline.com/store/boots/deeluxe_track_325T_closeout.cfm I am exactly a 14 (on the metal foot measurement plates at shoe/boot stores), and the 31's fit great once I had them molded with a beefy toe-cap on my feet during the molding process). More room, length-wise, than HSP's in 31.5 and also piece of cake to get in and out of compared to HSP's. Good luck.

Thanks for the info folks. Bora: Yep, I had checked out your board actually before my post. Looks great, but me thinks given my big feet and modest angles it'll be a bit narrow for me. MikeC: I hear you on the width. With my Yukon (26 cm waist), I'm Ok with softboots, and probably would need to turn my rear foot inward a bit (raise my angle to say 45) to eliminate boot out on toe turns (heelsides are ok). Hence, I think I need something at least as wide as an Prior ATV, or perhaps a custom Donek. I'll keep browsing and will probably give the guys at Donek a call. Thanks

Update to the below threads (and thanks again for your advice). Apologies for the long-ish post. http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=33305 http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=33546 So, I went for size 31 Track 225s from BOL (good price, too!). Got them molded at my local shop, and they feel great! I took your advice on bindings and bought a pair of Burton Races in good shape to replace my Performance plates. Don't have them yet, but will soon. So, next up is my board. You guys were right that my current board (Ride Yukon 172W) would only do for a short while, and I'd need to be looking at something more appropriate for true carving. I took my Yukon/Burton Performance/Track 225 set up (with 50F/35R angles) to my local hill, and found that on modest carves, the set up was great. But once I started pushing the carving angle, the board decambered too easily and "hooked" or "oversteered". I don't have the confidence on it with plates/hardboots that I do with softboots/3-strap Torques. So, I'm going to keep the Yukon for softbooting, and am looking for a proper carving board. Here's where I need your advice. I've read the equipment reviews on BOL, as well as myriad threads, along with websites for Donek, Prior and Coiler. Here are my stats: 1) 6'3", 190 lbs, 31.5 MP boots. 2) 50/35 binding angles. 2) I am not a speed demon (don't like going super fast:o) and typically ride narrow east coast trails, so I turn "C" s at modest speed. 3) I tend to avoid riding on icy days, too. Bit of a packed/soft conditions snob :) So, I think I am looking for a board with a 10m radius/all-mountain profile, like an Axxess or ATV. Using my current board for reference (172, 136 effective, 32/26/32, 10/9/10 sidecut), my questions are: a) Assuming an AM board will be stiffer than my Yukon, would getting a board with the same dimensions make sense, or with my height/weight should I be looking at something with a longer effective edge to be able to hold steeper carving angles? b) Is it fair to assume that my current board's 10/9/10 sidecut radius, on a softer board that decambers too easily with hard boots, actually cuts a shorter radius turn than a stiffer carving/AM board of the same radius? I don't know if I'm asking that question right...I guess I'm saying that I like the way my 10/9/10 radius Yukon turns on softboots, and want to replicate that curve on a hardboot board, so am wondering if I need to consider smaller?/larger?/similar? sidecut on the AM board? c) Any other boards to consider? (wide-ish AM) I like the idea of consulting with Donek for a custom set up, but before I do would appreciate any and all advice, as always (how's that for alliteration ;))

+1 Ain't that the ironic truth....when we were all "shredders" in the 80's/90's, we were accused of ruining the trail by scraping the snow off (forgetting for the moment that a skidding skiier has TWO edges doing the scraping). Now it's the ruts that are the problem? Sheesh.

thanks Blue. While I did pay with PayPal, the seller requested payment in full via the "gift" option. I didn't realize that option doesn't allow you to contest the payment (I already contacted Pay Pal to see if there was an exception since I have the documentation to prove this was truly a purchase). Sleazy on the seller's part, but lesson learned on my part. He'll get his due someday..what goes around comes around ;)

Yep, I've read everything on BOL regarding boot fit, liners, etc. (several times :D) Plus taken in a lot of great advice from all on this forum. I've basically convinced myself that the only way to know for sure is to dive right in and accept a little trial and error. I've already made the mistake of buying a used pair of HSP's that I discovered upon reciept had cracks in the heel blocks. Sadly, the seller is a member of BOL forums, didn't mention the cracks before accepting my payment, and won't return my emails seeking a resolution. There goes $150 that could have gone toward brand new boots. Buyer beware, hence all my pre-qualifiying questions.

Thanks Teach. Totally agree Zoltan's posts (there are a few of them out there that compare the three main brands) are very valuable. Appreciate your offer regarding the 30's. I decided to order a pair of Deeluxe 31's for now (length is my biggest concern) and see how they go. If they aren't right, I'll take you up on your offer, as well as Phil's (he has UPZ's and rides Bear Creek in PA). Agree with everyone that boot fit is totally an individual issue, and one that is highly subjective...some folks like a form fit, others like a little breathing room, some can't deal with heel lift, others can. I'm a newbie to this all. I've only tried three boots so far: HSP 31.5's (toes pinch) Burton Reactor 31's (toes pinch) Raichle rentals (circa '98 in Wengen, Switz): Not sure what size, but it was the biggest size they had, and they fit great. Hoping that if Deeluxe didn't change much from the old Raichle molds, maybe I'll get lucky:)

Thanks Beckmann, you just gave me an "ah-hah" moment. I didn't realize that. The Deeluxe liners are Thermo. The HSP's are partially moldable and have a "felt-like" cover to them. Yes, when I stand in the HSP's and do the shell test I can get about 2 fingers in there, so I don't think the shell's the issue. If the Deeluxe 31 shell is same as HSP's (I would think they'd have to be at least as big if the liners can take up to 31.9), then perhaps the Deeluxes would be ok. I'm going to give them a shot. WOrst case, I return and try UPZ's next year. Thanks again, appreciate all the advice from everyone.

Thanks Beckmann, does this mean that a liner's interior volume can be stretched to be larger? For example, the HSP 31.5 boot's liner must be something like 30.5 (inside dimension, seeing as my feet are 30.8 and make contact with the toebox of the liner). Yet, the outside of the liner itself has a hard vertically stitched seam at the very end of it, which I would assume means the liner itself can't be stretched...so I am still not certain how it is that a 31.5 liner that doesn't seem to fit a 30.8 foot can be made to be any "longer" inside. Is there that much "moldable" material between the inner and outer dimensions of a liner to create sufficient wiggle room? Bora, you are right that's really the only way to go for me (Buy, try, return). I started with the HSP's, now mulling Deeluxe, but would like to know if the physical dimensions of a Deeluxe 31 liner are likely to be larger or smaller than an HSP 31.5 liner. As for your question, my main issue is length, not so much width. My big toe (and to some extent 2nd and 3rd toe) are pressed up against the inside of the front of the HSP 31.5 liner. If I get a Deeluxe 31 boot (the liners of which are supposed to accommodate 31.0 - 31.9), I wanted to get a sense of whether I'd have a better or worse length-wise capacity than the HSP liners.

Thanks Nick and Dave. All, I've given all the above a read several times, as well as used the search function to find tons out more about the Deeluxe and UPZ's. Have also been in touch with Dan Yoja at UPZ and Michelle at BOL. Here's my dilemma: I know HSP's in 31.5 (notwithstanding Dave/Nick's trick) are a pinch tight on tips/tops of toes, yet my feet measure 30.8 (not the 31.1 I previously thought) so can't figure out why they feel short. The liners are numbered 29.5 - 31.0, though, so perhaps that's the problem? So, my options: 1) UPZ: I hear UPZ's have a roomier toebox, but Dan Yoja tells me the largest size available is 30.5 (seems like a big diff to the HSP's), yet some guys are running size 15 feet in them and he feels I could still fit (in fact maybe even down size). 2) Deeluxe: I hear Deeluxes are a bit narrower, but that the Thermoflex liners give you a fair amount of latitude to shape the liner to give you more room lenght and width-wise. They are available up to 31. Liners can supposedly accommodate 31.0 - 31.9 UPZ's are sold out till next year, Deeluxe are available in limited quantities. If you were a big foot like me (size 14), and wanted no toe pressure, would you go with UPZ's in 30.5, or Deeluxe in 31? Drives me crazy that I have no place nearby to try them all out to help my decisioning, so really appreciate your continued guidance.

Dayum, that's exactly what my issue is...and why didn't I think of that? I assumed that that plastic footbed was required:confused: I have since returned the HSP's as I had a 30 day window to get a full refund. May re-consider the HSP's if the UPZ's I plan to test out don't work out well.

^^^^Excellent input folks, thanks very much. I got in touch with Dan Yoja to learn a bit more about when next season's UPZ orders will be placed. I hope to hook up with a few of you in the Philly area to try your respective boots too (thanks again for the offers!).

Still mulling the move to hardboots. I measure 31.1 heel to toe (size 14 street) 1) Tried HSP's in 31.5 and they were too tight in the toe box (though I know others here have used them up to size 15, but their tolerance for toe pressure is likely higher than mine:o) 2) hope to try some UPZ's soon thanks to a gracious offer from a fellow BOL member with big feet. 3) might as well think about Deeluxe's too (though no opp'y to try these on), and I think they only go to 31.0 (though BOL size chart states round numbers mean that the size is a range (e.g. 31 = 31.0 -> 31.9). So, my question is: for those that have tried these brands, how would you say the toe box area compares from one to the other? a) Is one brand (shells/liners) more roomy than another's? b) How about the height of the boot mid-foot. Do certain brands have less room for bony arches? (top of the arches, I'm not worried about arch support) Thanks in advance

Mighty nice of you Phil! Sent you an email. but then found out where Bear Creek is....not too far (certainly closer to me than Philly). Perhaps I can find a day to meet you at BCM. When you email me back, let me know what days/hours you work there and I'll find a way to work around your schedule. Thanks again!! (and thanks again to all above with your recommendations...this is a great community full of excellent advice )

Agreed, hence my post from a few weeks ago. http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=33305 Problems for me are: a) The HSP 31.5's I ordered didn't fit me in the toebox area (and yep I had them evaluated by a professional boot fitter, who said he could get me fitted close to what I wanted, but couldn't completely relieve the pressure on the tips/tops of my toes (very important to me)). b) I was loathe to have him mod the boots given my current board and bindings are borderline for a hardboot set up (as per the advice in the thread above).If I modded them (and they didn't feel right or weren't right for the board) I would not have been able to return them to the seller and it would have been an expensive experiment. At some point, I plan to visit a proper alpine boarding store so I can avoid the "hit and miss" associated with getting things online and hoping they suit me. I live in NJ, but go to central VT from time to time. If anyone here has recommendations on shops, I'd be VERY grateful. :)

Pico near Rutland VT. Main reasons: a) Fair amount of wide trails with nice pitch b) ZERO crowds, even on weekends (since it's in the shadow of Killington, where everyone else goes ;-)) c) Relatively cheap. Lift tickets in the $50 range, whereas Killington's another $25 or so on top of that

JT, NickG, would love to hook up sometime...it's getting a bit lonely being the only one carving around the "terrain park debris field" lol. I typically ride Mtn Creek South (less crowded, but also not a lot of wide trails unfortunately), and head to North if it's a weekday. Haven't tried Blue, but have heard good things about it as family friendly. My son is in ski club at Shawnee, and he and I have toyed with the idea of doing Blue. We just did Windham, and are doing Okemo and Killington in a few weeks, then I have some business travel, so most likely not hitting the Creek or PA until early March...let's hope the snow holds up. Will PM you if any plans materialize. Please do same and keep me posted. Thanks for the tips everyone. I have read that the Drivers were indeed a stiff boot, but the Burton softened them in the last few years. I am somewhat beholden to availability of large boots (size 14 or so). I also want to make sure that any new boot I go to has a low profile footprint to avoid toe drag and/or ensure the boot fits as far back in the binding as possible. The ions look like they might be a good choice too. Lots of advice from you on bindings..have to do some research on them, then start shopping.

I've decided based on advice on this forum that a move to hardbooting is best done when board/boots/bindings are well suited to each other. I can't drop the coin on a full set up now, so for the time being - seeing as I'm VERY happy with my current board (Ride Yukon 172 Wide), I'm looking to replace my soft boot/binding set up. My two criteria are: 1) stiff as possible 2) easy entry bindings I currently wear Airwalk "freeride" boots, circa 1996, that are very soft by today's standards, and am considering a Burton Ruler boot. As for bindings, I currently ride Burton 3 strap Torques, but figure if I bought a stiffer softboot, the third strap becomes less necessary. But would like a binding that is easy to enter (less time strapping in) yet stiff enough to prevent too much flex. Heard good things about the Flow "The Five"? Thoughts on boots and bindings appreciated.

Moot point seeing as you pulled the trigger on a new board (congrats!), but FWIW I ride a Ride Yukon 172, nose/tail = 32.3, waist 26.9. Size 14 Airwalk softboots with old three-strap Burton Torque bindings. 45/30 F/R angles. No toe or heel overhang. Carves beautifully. But, if I was riding 12/-3, I'd definitely have overhang/boot out.