Slightly too tight liners

[cin]

Hi guys!

Last question I had boots that were too big. I managed to get my hands on the "right" shells, but the Flo liners inside are a little too tight length wise. It's the 299mm UPZ shell with size 8 liners. I'm a mondo 27.5 and barefoot in the shell I have a good 1.5fingers left.

Is there anything quick and easy to do to slightly increase the length of the sole? Would thermo molding work for that?

Thanks!

[pokkis]

If your liners are thermo, that should do work.

I have 27.5 feet but on my tight Atomics i use size 26.5 thermos molded.

[lowrider]

And your using toe caps when molding ?

[cin]

I've never heat molded myself.. that's why I'm checking if it's a viable option before trying. From the interwebz I understand that I have to:

1. Heat up rice in big socks with the microwave

2. Put these in the boots with liners and let them heat up

3. Put toecaps or 2 toe parts of old socks on my feet and put on socks over these 

4. Take the rice socks out of the boots and put in my feet

5. Rest in standing position and let the liners mold around my feet

 

I do know I need toecaps or something similar to create enough room for my toes but will have to experiment

How often can liners be molded?

[pokkis]

2 toe parts of old socks is not enough, use toilet paper of similar to get proper space.

I use end of finger tips of cheap Chinese neoprene glows

[cin]

Thanks. I also plan to use my toe socks (socks with separate toes), which give space between my toes. Thanks for the toilet paper tip!

I will probably read up more and try mold in the weekend

[Pat Donnelly]

From https://upzboots.com/faqs/#1454489871934-b7f58d4d-f7b2

"UPZ Flo Liners can be molded using 2 methods:

Self-Mold – this means that the flo in the liner will mold to your foot just by riding in the boots.  After a day on the slope the flo will mold to your foot shape.

Custom Heat Mold – this means that the inside portion of the flo liner can be heated using a system like Salomon Heat Sticks.

NB: UPZ Flo Liners must not be placed in an oven at anytime.  The outside material of the liner is not made for direct heat from any type of oven. A heat stick system is the only correct type of heating."

 

 

[SunSurfer]

8 hours ago, cin said:

How often can liners be molded?

Not a direct answer, more of an explanation for the limit.

Most heat moldable liners use EVA foam as the moldable component. EVA gets soft and moldable above about 50 degrees Centigrade and above about 70 degrees Centigrade the foam structure starts to degrade, and this process becomes more severe with higher temps and longer exposure. Ideally you find a way of evenly heating the liner to more than 50 C and less than 70 degrees C to minimise the foam degradation.

[Beckmann AG]

In general, the outer layer of fabric on a composition liner will not have much give, and therefore feel restrictive, even when used in the correct size shell.

As in: Your foot is foot-shaped, and the liner is more of a rectangle of approximate foot length.

To gain a little more room, install your foot to the liner, look for and mark the spots that look 'tight' (often at the heel, and at the first and /or fifth metatarsal head), and make a few careful slits with a razor knife/box cutter, or one of those cats with laser beam eyes.

Take your foot out of the liner before cutting.

Esp if you go with the cat.

This will allow the formerly non-conforming material to better match the shape of your foot.

 

[Lurch]

2 hours ago, Beckmann AG said:

..one of those cats with laser beam eyes..

Been busy in the lab over summer @Beckmann AG? Can only presume this photon feline is designed to combat those pesky pocket squirrels?

[cin]

3 hours ago, Beckmann AG said:

As in: Your foot is foot-shaped, and the liner is more of a rectangle of approximate foot length

This is indeed what I notice right now, in the Flow liner, my toes are against the front fabric so I guess the 'give' might come at the heel, to give my toes more room lenght-wise?

3 hours ago, Beckmann AG said:

To gain a little more room, install your foot to the liner, look for and mark the spots that look 'tight' (often at the heel, and at the first and /or fifth metatarsal head), and make a few careful slits with a razor knife/box cutter, or one of those cats with laser beam eyes.

So let's say I'm not using the cat, but the box cutter.. do I actually cut slits on the inside of my liner? I'm a little confuzzled, won't I be wrecking the material? Should I be doing this before, after, or instead of molding?

So many new questions

[Beckmann AG]

^Cut gill slits on the outside of the liner. Outer layer of fabric only, as the internal layer is compliant.

Start at the heel if your heel has more definition/shape than the liner. Usually a few slits to either side of the seam that runs up the back.

Be mindful not to slash the flo pacs in the ankle area.

[cin]

1 hour ago, Beckmann AG said:

^Cut gill slits on the outside of the liner. Outer layer of fabric only, as the internal layer is compliant.

Start at the heel if your heel has more definition/shape than the liner. Usually a few slits to either side of the seam that runs up the back.

Be mindful not to slash the flo pacs in the ankle area.

Okay, that clears up where I can / need to cut. Is this something I do before I start heat-molding the flo liners?

[Beckmann AG]

The flo goo will continue to move about for a few days as you ride/lounge in the boots, so it doesn't really matter at this point.

Heating that stuff will just make the boots slightly less uncomfortable for your initial outing.

If, on the other hand, it feels like you've got a handful of rodent skulls chewing on your ankle bones, heat it sooner rather than later. You can use a hair dryer, bag of heated rice, etc.

[Chouinard]

On 11/21/2019 at 1:17 AM, cin said:

This is indeed what I notice right now, in the Flow liner, my toes are against the front fabric

I experienced this condition and struggled to fix it for 3.5 years. I went as far as punching out the toe box on my shells. I ordered new liners because original ones wore out. I received shells 1/2 mondo size larger than the originals. The increased length made a significant difference without any loss of fit.

[teach]

Your heel will settle into the liner after a few days out, and the toe box (neoprene, I guess) will stop feeling like it's curling your toes. Even with a "too small" liner. I have the next shell up and one pair of 9.5 liners (largest for the shell) and a pair of 9. They both work well now, but at first were way too short. (Actually, it takes a few minutes after putting then on before your foot settles in, and they seem tight before that. I just wear them more or less unbuckled until I get on the snow. No problems then, good all day.)

-You have the largest liners for your shell. Doesn't mean an 8.5 wouldn't work though, I suppose.

-The toe is meant to give, a lot. That's why it's a different material.

-Intuition pro tongue liners are thinner, with a similar toe box and sole, and would work if you're otherwise not having success. These actually leave too much space for me but seem like they'd be very good.

[1xsculler]

This is the only thing that worked for me and I spent two seasons trying to get comfortable, i.e. different shells, different liners, heat molding with every conceivable device to make room for toes.

I made a cut completely through the top of my Deeluxe 131 liners from the joint of my big toe to the joint of my little toe which opened up a gap about 3/4” wide when I put my foot in the liner when out of the shell. Now my toes are super comfy and they don’t get cold either much to my surprise. 
 

[1xsculler]

That is the ONLY thing that would work for me. Size 28 UPZ shells with size 28 Deeluxe 131 liners. Feet measure 28.2 cm. 
sounds stupid and looks stupid but my boots are as comfortable as bedroom slippers now, we’ll almost. Life is good.