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villiage!diot

Need new setup selection help

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I haven't rode my hard setup since I blew out my system a while back (like maybe almost 10 years now).  I really want to get back on the hard setup this season bad.   A lot has changed since then and would like to ask a few basic questions if that's all right.  Side note my first carve board I got in 1990 and I still have and it has the first Burton plates on it ... my most recent one has the last Burton plates on it still.  I don't like them as they seem to flexible and weak.  And the last boots I bought were the Burton Fire boots and I blew them out a long time ago and have been dealing with it till I stopped riding them.  Too weak for me.  

I have a wide foot in the ball area.  From reading some of this forum I would gather UPZ would be better for me.  What say you?  I can't seem to find a consolidated explanation of the pros and cons of the top brands. What are the top brands these days?  Price really is on no consequence to me.  I am a hard rider and break stuff and I just want quality that I will not tear apart in a few seasons.  So what brands should I be looking into?  I don't have too many ideas here.  My first boots were raichle ski boots back in '90.  In Fact I was told ski boots were too stiff so get womens boots which I did and that was decent for learning.   But now I need hard high performance boots.  Where should I be looking? 

As far as bindings go.  A few years back I was looking into this and the big deal at the time was the Trench diggers.  I seen a few on the mountain and they look nice.  They look much better than the F2 stuff I am finding online.  But looks online can be deceiving.  I think the step in are the way to go but what brand should I be looking at.  My understanding is the best bindings can't be found new now as the company went under and still owns the patent.   

I like to ride with my knees tight together so I like boots and bindings with lots adjustments to allow me to create the inclines I like to make it a more powerful drive into the carve from position.  

Much appreciated!

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Welcome back!  The modern carving boards are amazing. 

Check out the Montucky Clear CUT lots of demos and good times. Try out a bunch to see what you like.  The best of the US and Canadian builders will be there.  

www.montuckyclearcut.com

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Add some info for more help. Height, weight, goofy or regular, binding angles. cant, heel and toe lift. You might meet up with people locally for some help in trying gear before you buy. Bomber bindings are still available member" Forest " can help you out with info. The equipment sold on this forum is probably your best option if you are unsure of where to source gear. You can buy with confidence as members tend to be very trustworthy and many will vouch for their accuracy in describing the condition of same. You can usually sell off anything that doesn't suit you without losing large sums of money. This is an excellent time to load up on gear and work on making some boots fit your feet or the other way around. Good Luck !

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K so I am 5’6” and 180 pounds.  I am riding the volant 162 Excel SL all aluminum top sheet slalom board.  Excellent ride by the way.  Very heavy though kinda slow in the beginning. 

Front foot is about 68 

rear about 61

had to change the orientation of the disks to align the slots in a way to prevent toe heel drag and center on the board so the alignment marks are not accurate so I sort of measured with a phone protractor but you can see in the pic maybe.  Fairly thin board that requires rather aggressive stance.  I rode this for years back in the  early and mid 2000s.  Can’t really remember when I stopped riding it as that was a while back... maybe 2008 roughly.  

If if I pull them and Loctite the bindings those will work a bit longer I bet... but I ride just a few laps and they are lose right now.  They work but there is a lot of plastic and soft cushions that I don’t really need I think.  Forward cant on rear foot is decent, came with the bindings.  

So so I can probably get by on these a few more seasons if I reset them but the reason I stopped is the boots.  

I probably broke them because a few times I would loosen them up a bit when the conditions deemed it for some flex and eventually I popped snapped and broke too many things to keep riding them. I probably need both a hard and soft shell boot so I can do either.  

 

But these new bindings that lift lift you up off the board and have multi axis positioning look way cool.  My board I love and is fine for now but the boots and bindings need replacement. 

C2C625F7-8C03-45D2-A73D-CC8223B354B5.jpeg

03581FE0-3FC4-4D0D-B64E-26509B817BB5.jpeg

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10 hours ago, villiage!diot said:

 

I like to ride with my knees tight together so I like boots and bindings with lots adjustments to allow me to create the inclines I like to make it a more powerful drive into the carve from position.  

Much appreciated!

I respect your past experiences and riding style preference noted above.

In the intervening years stance distances have increased. A longer stance increases the size of the base of support over which you balance potentially giving you more stability. For comparison I'm 182cm tall and run a 56cm binding centre to binding centre stance. Using that stance distance I run NASTAR at platinum level. 

There are new ways of thinking about how all aspects of your stance interact and therefore the effect of differing amounts of boot sole lift and canting. 

Much has changed since you last ride hard boot gear. To get the most out of the modern equipment will probably need modifications to your riding style as well.

PS: replied too fast without noting that you were aiming to keep riding the Volant. Your stance length options may be much more limited as a result. 

F2 bindings now have the option of custom 3D printing wedge/cant combos to match the range of options available from the Trench Digger design.

Edited by SunSurfer
Add PS.

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@SunSurfer  So ... thanks for the P.S. and PM.  The topic here is not about the board I use or my method of riding. The topic is about boots and bindings hence why I posted in the section Hard boot reviews.  I really need new boots to get back in the action nothing more.  I am very happy with my board.  It goes very fast and carves all the way in the hardest of ice.  I am short so I don't need a long board.  I don't ride to impress others and I don't race anymore.  Outside of my Tahoe Powder board I have always rode 164ish roughly sized free ride and freestyle boards and the slalom Volant at 162 and flat tail gets me enough edge to do what I need.    I have nothing bad to say about it other than initially when I get up it is a tank and can be a little slow initially.  But once you are going there is nothing but smooth deep carves ahead.  I used to tell people that you almost can't crash on it because if you start to go over it just grabs and carves.  All you have to do is have faith in it and lean in properly and it grabs and you can pull it out.  

The method I use is definitely old school and I am not opposed to learning a new style but I need boots in order to do so.  I have offers from groups that train at timberline in the summer to help me if I want ... but I need boots.  It has killed me since the 90's that hard boots never took off here in America and it is such an ordeal to get equipment.  I have no understanding really of why so few riders want to use hard boots.  I started using them I think when I was 16 and always enjoyed it.  I would spend the mornings carving it up practicing my form and the afternoons on my soft boots jumping through the air.  This allowed me to progress faster than all of my friends who sat around hiking and jumping the same hits over and over.  Hard boots make you a better soft boot rider in every way.  Why more people don't do it is beyond me.  And it has killed me to go so long without riding my slalom board.  So this year I want to try and find some boots.              

Sounds like UPZ is the best option based on the  PM you sent me.  But again that is merely the one relevant reply to the boots topic so far and not actually in this thread LOL. 😉  

The only reason I mentioned the style was to explain that I like lots of options in the boot and binding adjustments to help force positioning.  Not to holed position rather it allows less wasted energy transfer.  Same idea as having forward lean.  Having lateral adjustments are nice as well.      

My bindings I can live with for now but I really want fancy ones.  High rise ones that allow for more stance options would be fantastic.  But I don't want stuff that breaks easily.  I never buy soft boot bindings that don't have aluminium base plates as I always break the plastic ones ... usually in the air while tweaking out a grab.  I think I broke 5 pair of Burton bindings on my original Craig Kelly doing nothing special but pulling fat airs.  I even have an extra set still unused as I bought an extra pair when they stopped making the original hole pattern just in case.  (I have never sold anything and only gave away one of my boards that was just too small for me as I bought this 155 park board once and just go bored with it.  Too small for me to carve deep enough to enjoy it outside the pipe or park.)   

My angles are dictated by not having toe and heel drag.  I love them now but I did not choose them for comfort.  At the time I fit the boots to the board and set the angle as shallow as possible without having drag.  I was never happy really with the Burton bindings but they were what was available at the time.  I thought they would be great but I kinda feel like the original ones I got that were from the 80's were better other than having the heel clip.  The toe clip was a huge improvement.  But the all steel single piece high up bindings I have on my original work possibly better.  The board is significantly inferior so impossible to tell.  

Peace!

 

 

 

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I bought my UPZs from the North American UPZ dealer, taking advantage of an off season sale price. Prompt delivery to me in New Zealand. Bought the same mondo size as my old Head SPs and didn't regret that. Lots of threads on optimal boot shell sizing prior to installing a custom moldable liner. There are at least one pair of essentially new RC10 2016 model, the same model I own, in the For Sale section currently. Might be about your size given your height.

Trench Digger (TDs) bindings are very strong but not indestructible. If you buy UPZs and then TDs try to get 6 degree cant discs to help compensate for the approx. 11 degree zeppa/slope on the boot inside sole. TDs have the virtue of being easily able to produce a wide variety of combinations of lift and cant. Given your preference above for lots of options TDs are probably the best for allowing relatively easy experimentation with lift and cant, compared to the F2s or the Sigi Grabner equivalent design.

Edited by SunSurfer

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So I think the boots you are talking about on here are at a guys house that is a few hours from me.  We chatted a bit but I also am chatting with a euro distributor who is going to contact the factory about older models for me.  The guy over seas suggests I get 27’s and the guy in Bend has 27.5 but that is likely workable.

Anyway thanks a lot.  I think I am going to just get boots this year and then bindings next year so long as I like the boots.  I am actually considering getting both a softer pair and a stiffer pair.  

Maybe in a few years I might get a new carve board but the one I have is super nice... at least I think so. Super thin and a fun ride.  The hill I ride is usually crowded and lots of thin runs so a monster may not be suitable.  But there are some very open areas I hang out in. It has a lot to offer but is nothing like the Tahoe places I used to frequent.  I grew up riding where I am at now but when I bought this board I was living near Tahoe and riding there a few times a week.  They have very open runs in those hills.  Mt Hood has tight trees and isn’t as nice as Tahoe. 

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Modern boards don't need to be monsters to have edge hold that will leave you weak at the knees. I own a Coiler Nirvana Energy Torsion + 174, with a 12-14m  radius that turns pretty tight and holds brilliantly. It was the board I was riding in the video. I borrowed a Thirst Superconductor 174cm (thanks Pat C, the memories of that afternoon's riding are sweet) and was blown away by how tight it turned and how well its' edge held. Or go the Kessler route, either a 162 slalom or the freeride 168. I love my KST 162 for tight turns and heavy traffic but again edge hold that will leave you thinking "Damn. I should have spent more time building my quads over summer!"

Edit: OR - Slim waist, turns so tight you'll see your own backside, and a lot of fun. The Donek Madd Killer.

Edited by SunSurfer
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If your feel aren't happy nothing is going to work as it should. Boot fitment is more of a challenge if your feet are of an odd shape. "Try before you buy" has always been my mantra. Meeting up with others allows a real life comparison that beats typing out descriptions and"  what works for me" comparisons. The Turner event is relatively close for you and an excellent opportunity to short cut the trial and error method most of us have to endure to get a reasonable fit. If you are familiar with the work of a good boot fitter you can usually make something that is close to a good fit work well. Heat moldable liners a must in my opinion. Franken mods can be done to almost any boot that gets close to what you would consider a good fit. 

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Yeah molding a liner is what I was planing to do after I get the boots.  

I can’t plan far enough out for an event like that and it likely is sold out before I could commit to it. I have some things happening in the next two months that may change everything in my life so I won’t know if I can make it till September at best.  But I have some important things happening and don’t have time this season likely to travel for fun. 

 

 

 

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LOL and it just dawned on me...See I been really considering that event in Montanan but there are a bunch of reasons why I can't go or at least can't plan to go.  I might do it last minute if it is still going on and I can get in but I just thought of a real issue I can't plan for.  

See I live above the snow plow line.  The county won't maintain the roads up where I live.  And there is no one else beyond the snow plow line in my direction.   I get more than 6' of snow a winter (comes and goes sometimes up to 3' dumps at once back to back, usually less).  I live half way up Mt Hood on the north side in the forest so that is nice in that I can just hike for pow once in a while ... but also ... I have to maintain the road.  I plow it with my tractor and getting in and out of there in the winter really is all on me.  No one else up there so if I don't plow it , it just keeps piling up and getting worse.  If I leave and a storm comes rolling through and dumps a few feet my wife will get stuck in the house and when I return I will be walking from the plow line to my home to get my tractor and dig us out.  Not an impossible task but I will have to either teach the wife to plow, which she wont want to do, pay someone to plow while I am gone, or deal with possibly a bad situation when I come back...or not. Maybe this even happens in-between storms.  🙂

Not to mention I am probably getting a new job in a few weeks that requires 50% travel so I wont have much vacation time built up and may need to be on the road at the time.  Maybe not...who knows. 

But the up side is I am very close to the back door of Meadows.  😁

And that is the easy complication I wasn't even considering ...

 

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Even if you have the worst setup of everyone on this forum you are the envy of all. Your problem is you live on a mountain with the longest season in North America and you can't go to a snowboarding event because you might not get home for fear of too much snow !!!!! Keep your problems to yourself. (from a lowlander who lives in a snow drought area) You don't need new boots you need a snorkel. 

  • Haha 1

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Yeah I know I just thought it was funny.  Of all the things keeping me from it...I have a list but I really should teach my wife how to use the tractor in the snow properly.it is actually kinda fun except when it is back to back to back.  People bring their snowmobiles and cross country skis and park at the end of my driveway where I stop plowing the road and go out into the hills.  Once the snows come it doesn’t go away till mid April.  🤣

 

 

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"It's actually kinda fun". Yah sure I've been telling my wife that about driving the tractor and baling hay but so far she's not buying it. So is it more fun getting stuck with the tractor going up hill or down ?

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LOL... I actually really enjoy 4 wheeling it in the snow.  It’s a blast.  One day I may get tired of it but I love living out in the forest in an area that once it snows good is always white. 

I don’t know that I enjoy getting stuck but for the most part with plowing you don’t. The first pass it a bit sketchy and may take a few runs if it is deep just to get up and out of here.  I am near the bottom of a valley so I have to plow up my driveway then up the hill to the plow line.  Downhill is obviously easier but I do fine even without chains.  Although my buddy talked me into getting some so I can finish faster. 

On the pavement I really have no issues it is once I get off onto the gravel part where you need to be careful not to dig in. 

There is this banked corner on the road that when it gets icy can be a bit tricky sliding sideways through but that’s what makes it fun. So yeah ... chains.

But I realized after posting that... if I get this new job I will have to teach her anyway.  I haven’t brought that up yet.  She didn’t grow up driving on snow like me so she is still learning and getting comfortable with it. 

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IMO, Stance is not fashion.   You no doubt know how to stand on your board.  Left to others, you'd T-bolt your board and pull a groin muscle one day, then listen to vibration chatter the shells of your boots together the next.

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Just realized in re-reading this thread that not much was said about bindings. Yes, Bombers are popular here and still available. F2 are also great. I own three pairs and have no problems with them. If you want to stick with the traditional style the Titaniums are all the binding you will need. I run the Titanflex step-ins and love them. 

Regarding your stance: many modern boards are wider than back in the day and will support lower angles. Racers these days are running around the 45 or 50 degree mark. So that may be something to  play with. 

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Yes that is why it got moved... no one replied on topic.  I don’t mind though.  

I got boots from a guy who’s been riding slightly longer than me.  We chatted a bit about the bindings.  I am good to go now I think.  

Thanks for the reply. 

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