How to measure feet for hardboots?

[lafcadio]

Bomber used to have an article showing exactly how to measure your feet for determining correct hardboot size. 

Can anyone point me to a good reference that can be shared with a first timer to get their correct modo point size? 

 

There doesn't appear to be anything in the Tech Articles here: http://alpinesnowboarder.com/tech-articles/

Carver's Almanac doesn't really give enough details (especially for a newbie):  http://www.alpinecarving.com/bootfitting.html#size

[lonbordin]

Like this?

https://patriotfootbeds.com/blogs/bootorials/48749697-measuring-your-feet-for-ski-boots

[daveo]

I've done this a few times. I just fashioned a brannock device. 

Put ruler on floor against wall

Put foot on ruler and heel against wall

Stand up and look at number

Repeat for other foot

Boom done

1 minute ago, lonbordin said:

Like this?

https://patriotfootbeds.com/blogs/bootorials/48749697-measuring-your-feet-for-ski-boots

Nehh, doesn't take into account the boney part at the back of your heel. Mine are huge because when I wasn't a fat ugly lazy slob, I used to be a sprinter. 

[Jack M]

Indeed, Mondopoint is just the overall length of your foot in centimeters. 

[Aracan]

I take the OP's question to be how the length of the foot is best determined: By standing with the heel against a wall and marking the tip of the longest toe; or by stepping on a piece of paper, drawing the circumference of the foot and measuring its length.

I prefer the former.

[slapos]

i use this:

 

 

 

[lafcadio]

Thanks, everyone!  I was looking for something that I could quickly share with a newbie who is interested in trying hardboots. 

Lots of good options here.  And I agree, simply measuring the length of the foot from heel to longest toe in centimeters is easy enough. 

[SunSurfer]

Found a free high tech solution to this problem.  Available for Android & iOS.

https://antropometria.ibv.org/en/3d-avatar-feet-en/

Just used the app to 3D model and measure my own feet. The limited use free app also gives measurements  for foot length, ball width, ball girth and Instep girth. If I hadn't run out of attachment room I'd post my images and the fact that my UPZ RC10s shell fit this shape well. What intrigued me was that the app had my feet at 280mm +/- 1mm length. I've always found 28 mondo shells too small and found comfort only in 29 mondo. Go figure.

Left
Length: 279.0  (all in mm)
Ball Girth: 275.6
Ball Width: 113.0
Instep Girth: 271.7

Right
Length: 280.1 
Ball Girth: 268.4
Ball Width: 112.0
Instep Girth: 267.5

Edited April 13, 2019 by SunSurfer

[lafcadio]

2 hours ago, SunSurfer said:

Left
Length: 279.0  (all in mm)
Ball Girth: 275.6
Ball Width: 113.0
Instep Girth: 271.7

Right
Length: 280.1 
Ball Girth: 268.4
Ball Width: 112.0
Instep Girth: 267.5

 

Wow! This is great. How do the measurements for length from the app compare to previous length measurements you've made manually?

[Jack M]

3 hours ago, SunSurfer said:

If I hadn't run out of attachment room

Time to delete some old attachments! Or move them offsite to something like tinypic.com. Let me know if you need help. 

[daveo]

4 hours ago, SunSurfer said:

If I hadn't run out of attachment room I'd post my images

imgur.com/upload

Drag and drop your images and they'll upload. Then just right click it to get the image url and paste it in here. It autoembeds, don't even need to know a slither of html. Or you can make an account and make albums for archival purposes.

Edited April 13, 2019 by daveo
Apparently Jack answered this... Oops.

[1xsculler]

I spent a lot of time on this and had 27, 28, 29 and 30 UPZ and Deeluxe shells. I wear a size 13 Nike running shoe. My feet measure 28.2 cm and are sort of low volume. I tried really hard to get a 27 to work but it was a no way, no go. 30 and 29, too big. 28 seemed too small until, after a lot of messing around I finally got a flawless fit by doing serious surgery on the toe area of my Palau/Deeluxe 131, size 28 liners. So, my perfect fit for the past two seasons has been this liner in a 28 UPZ. Arriving at a great fit is one of the milestones that must be overcome before you can concentrate your time and effort to all the rest. 

I could get no comfort until I cut my liners like this...much to my surprise no cold toes either. 

[SunSurfer]

https://imgur.com/a/Ed4aOZh

Happy in UPZ RC10 324mm shell (mondo 29-29.5)

Link has the screenshots from my Android phone of the 3D models of my feet and the measurements screen. On phone screen the 3D models are 360 degree viewable. The sole view seemed to give the most information on foot shape for a single view.

Took a couple more repeat measurements to see how reproducible the measurements were. Right foot was reproduced with +/- 3mm consistency. On the subsequent 2 runs through Left foot lost 20mm length and other measurements in proportion. Run 2 app noted Left foot reproduced "with problems", 3rd run no such message.

Manually measuring Right foot length today, steel ruler end against skirting board & rear most protruberance of foot against skirting board, length = 283mm, ball width 111mm (little toe just touching skirting board, no sense of pressure)

So appears to measure accurately most of the time.

I suspect that its' value lies in showing relative foot shapes and volumes when someone says a particular boot shell suits their feet.

Edited April 13, 2019 by SunSurfer
add detail

[1xsculler]

3 hours ago, SunSurfer said:

https://imgur.com/a/Ed4aOZh

Happy in UPZ RC10 324mm shell (mondo 29-29.5)

Link has the screenshots from my Android phone of the 3D models of my feet and the measurements screen. On phone screen the 3D models are 360 degree viewable. The sole view seemed to give the most information on foot shape for a single view.

Took a couple more repeat measurements to see how reproducible the measurements were. Right foot was reproduced with +/- 3mm consistency. On the subsequent 2 runs through Left foot lost 20mm length and other measurements in proportion. Run 2 app noted Left foot reproduced "with problems", 3rd run no such message.

Manually measuring Right foot length today, steel ruler end against skirting board & rear most protruberance of foot against skirting board, length = 283mm, ball width 111mm (little toe just touching skirting board, no sense of pressure)

So appears to measure accurately most of the time.

I suspect that its' value lies in showing relative foot shapes and volumes when someone says a particular boot shell suits their feet.

My bet is you (28.3, simple ruler measuring method) could better use a 28 UPZ (312mm) as I think guys with longer feet than mine (28.2) get into a 28.  Ask Corey on this site. Of course there are other foot factors to consider but I struggled miserably with very cramped toes, especially big toe, until I cut all the way through my liner all the way across from little toe to big toe.  When the liner is not in the shell, but my foot is in, there is about a 3/4" opening slit (see image in previous post) across the tops of my toes.  I was very fearful that this surgery would ruin a perfectly good pair of liners but it worked great and made all the difference in the world.  No matter how hard I tried with a heat gun and a DIY liner compressor I could not get the liner thin enough to accommodate my toes. Yes, I tried 29 liners and, in or out of the shell, they cramped my toes similar to the 28s.  Now that I am rethinking this issue I'm wondering if I could get into a 27 shell now that I have no problem doing surgery on the liner.  Being a dentist, I went through putting silicone impression material down inside my boots between the liner toe area and the shell and I could see that I had room.  Let's face it, the smaller the shell you can make work the better.

[SunSurfer]

@1xsculler That's the received wisdom, that riders are best to have a mondo size boot that matches their rounded down foot length in cm. Hence my "go figure" comment in my original post.

What I've got gives me great heel hold down, and plenty of room for my forefoot to move as I modulate the pressure under the sole of my foot.

 

[lowrider]

1 hour ago, 1xsculler said:

My bet is you (28.3, simple ruler measuring method) could better use a 28 UPZ (312mm) as I think guys with longer feet than mine (28.2) get into a 28.  Ask Corey on this site. Of course there are other foot factors to consider but I struggled miserably with very cramped toes,  Being a dentist, I went through putting silicone impression material down inside my boots between the liner toe area and the shell and I could see that I had room.  Let's face it, the smaller the shell you can make work the better.

Glancing through you post my eyes caught "Silicone Impression" I was ready to assume you were cosmetic surgeon. Wondering if single slice or multiple slices the fabric of one layer layer would be sufficient  

[daveo]

So one might assume that with this app, a foot can be measured and a suitable shell can be recommended based on the measurements.

Maybe a suitable liner can also be recommended.

More thought and data is required on this. 

[SunSurfer]

@daveo  Dodge Skiboots already use this app on their website to do exactly that.

[Chouinard]

Ordered size 27 Palau liners from Carvers Paradise. They sent a pair of 27.5’s. Made a world of difference.

Don’t assume the liner fully fills the shell. There is an X-ray of a boot toe pocket showing the toes of a foot, the liner and the boot on the Alpine Snowboard Trader Facebook that clearly shows a significant gap between the liner and the shell.

[daveo]

2 minutes ago, Chouinard said:

Ordered size 27 Palau liners from Carvers Paradise. They sent a pair of 27.5’s. Made a world of difference.

Don’t assume the liner fully fills the shell. There is an X-ray of a boot toe pocket showing the toes of a foot, the liner and the boot on the Alpine Snowboard Trader Facebook that clearly shows a significant gap between the liner and the shell.

With Palau you add 0.5 to your Mondo size usually for this purpose

5 minutes ago, SunSurfer said:

@daveo  Dodge Skiboots already use this app on their website to do exactly that.

Seems like we should be doing the same for hardboots. Then every "Omg which boot/liner do I get?!" thread is answered correctly and with a simple FAQ. 

[SunSurfer]

The data we lack is the internal volume of the different brands and shell sizes. Also the means to match the 3D foot model to the shell.

Ideally other ski & snowboard boot manufacturers would licence the app just as Dodge has done.

Edited April 14, 2019 by SunSurfer

[daveo]

3 hours ago, 1xsculler said:

My bet is you (28.3, simple ruler measuring method) could better use a 28 UPZ (312mm) as I think guys with longer feet than mine (28.2) get into a 28.  Ask Corey on this site. Of course there are other foot factors to consider but I struggled miserably with very cramped toes, especially big toe, until I cut all the way through my liner all the way across from little toe to big toe.  When the liner is not in the shell, but my foot is in, there is about a 3/4" opening slit (see image in previous post) across the tops of my toes.  I was very fearful that this surgery would ruin a perfectly good pair of liners but it worked great and made all the difference in the world.  No matter how hard I tried with a heat gun and a DIY liner compressor I could not get the liner thin enough to accommodate my toes. Yes, I tried 29 liners and, in or out of the shell, they cramped my toes similar to the 28s.  Now that I am rethinking this issue I'm wondering if I could get into a 27 shell now that I have no problem doing surgery on the liner.  Being a dentist, I went through putting silicone impression material down inside my boots between the liner toe area and the shell and I could see that I had room.  Let's face it, the smaller the shell you can make work the better.

So I have about 5mm of room in the back of my heel when I put my boots with no liners (with footbeds and socks). It probably as small as I could get before they're too small.

I found the way it worked for me was using Zipfit liners since they are almost fully compressible in the heel due to the design and they also have a neoprene toe. Another option which work is the Palau Dual Fit liners as they have a much more compressible foam around the toe I believe for this purpose. I used the Palau Overlap Hard which had the full EVA toebox for a few sessions and they caused a little toe crampage, no issues upon swapping to the Dual Fit! 

I've cut liners in the toe similar to you before but actually ended up shaving it down kind of smooth all the way around with something similar to a dremel then replaced the front and top region with neoprene. Don't have them anymore since I discovered the two above alternatives. 

5 minutes ago, SunSurfer said:

The data we lack is the internal volume of the different brands and shell sizes. Also the means to match the 3D foot model to the shell.

Ideally other ski & snowboard boot manufacturers would licence the app just as Dodge has done.

Fin made a video based on this years ago, right? 

We lack the mountain slope inner dimensions, maybe Jennifer would tell us, but I doubt it...

Since I have RC10 and 951 in comparable sizes, I could take difference measurements between the two to make a reasonable inference of relative size.

[Chouinard]

1 hour ago, daveo said:

With Palau you add 0.5 to your Mondo size usually for this purpose 

Makes me wonder....

Bought the boots and liners in Toronto at YYZ. Shells 27, liner 27.  Ordered 27 liners but the liners that shipped someone had clearly scrubbed off 95% of the “.5”. All I know is .5 size liners are available and they fit better than the 27’s. 

Worth a try instead of cutting into the liner especially if room is available in the boot.

[SunSurfer]

Output from Fin's cut through boot project linked

https://imgur.com/a/o6MDVW0

(9 images)

 

Edited April 19, 2019 by SunSurfer

[BobD]

This was one of the best threads on the subject