GeoffV Posted February 20, 2019 Report Share Posted February 20, 2019 I picked up an old school 195 2003 Donek from a good friend of mine who needed to downsize equipment do to an international move. The green 195 pictured below was the first long board I tried back in 03/04 and loved it so much I ordered one from Sean . I sold it years ago when board builders started building new decambered shapes and metal was the new rave. I was eager to take this thing out and see if I still liked it as much as I remembered. Conditions were very firm/ice with some spots of sugar: Board spec: 195cm/18.5cm/16.75m My impressions of the board: Once up to speed the fixed 16.75m radius was pretty easy to turn. What was more of a surprise was how loud the board was compared to the equipment I ride now. Back in 2003 the boards were fiberglass and wood cores with no damping material in there. I found that I could not lock in on a carve on the ice and expect the board to hold sold like a metal board. It would start chattering and slipping. I was pretty surprised by it because these conditions would normally not phase me on a metal board or new construction. I haven't really experienced consistent chatter on a board in a carve in years. Yes, I will chatter once and a while with a metal board, but when that happens it is my fault do to fatigue or bad form. Since the conditions where a mix of sugar and ice I was getting jolted around quite a bit on this board. I did not have the confidence that this board would hold in the icy conditions. After about 6 runs on this board I switched back to my 180 KST with an AF plate and boy did that make a difference. I was back to being locked in on a carve and had my confidence back. I did enjoy the 2003 195 Donek and will only take it out when the conditions are good. The boards that I ride now are all new shapes with decambered tip and tails and metal construction besides the Donek MK. Board shapes and construction have changed A LOT since 2003 and it makes a huge difference in performance on snow. For all those riders that are still holding on to and riding old Burtons and boards that are from the 90's do your self a favor and at least get a board that has been made in the last decade with the new decambered shapes. Trust me it makes a BIG difference. You are limiting your riding and ability with a board that was built in the 90's. The picture shows a great comparison of the old shapes of a board built in 2003 vs. a 175cm Donek with the new shape construction. 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pow4ever Posted February 21, 2019 Report Share Posted February 21, 2019 Thank you! I start out riding a Donek 180GS Olympic Construction and remember getting my butt kicked. (technically Madd BX as transitioning from soft to hard initially). Was going to take it out for a spin to see how I do now. Maybe not such a good idea lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVR Posted February 21, 2019 Report Share Posted February 21, 2019 This is a good read.... I have an Oxygen Proton, 185 and it is the love of my life. For the first 5 runs, on first run groomers, there is a feeling that this has that is so very smooth and, well, simply feels good. But as I read your above post, I sadly must admit, I agree.... After the first hour of so, I find it very hard to get my hips to engage and transition edge to edge like I do with my Donek. Sure, it will lay over, but it just doesn't have the grip of a modern designed board. I will go back to the lodge, switch to my 1 year old REV/Secret Hybrid Sean made me and suddenly, hips engage, edges are grippy and I can charge down the mountain even where there is some ice and /or the bumps of standard usage on the now not fresh trails. I will say, I ride better, however, going retro once in a while though. The Oxygen somehow makes me a better rider, even if I would never race with it. I will probably never sell it (even though it has no real value anyway) as I do still enjoy it, but I have to agree with Geoffv here and say the technology makes for better riding, in my humble opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted February 21, 2019 Report Share Posted February 21, 2019 Older boards force you to use technique, not technology, to carve well. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted February 21, 2019 Report Share Posted February 21, 2019 Penny-farthing bikes with wooden tires are fun too, for a while. It's good to know the roots of the sport, but there's no shame in enjoying technological progress. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 4 hours ago, Corey said: but there's no shame in enjoying technological progress. Agree there's no shame, but my Coiler Nirvana allowed me to carve it with poorer technique. It took riding, and trying to cleanly carve, an old board last Southern hemisphere winter to open my eyes to the next step of progression in my own carving skills. @TVR above thinks that occasionally going retro makes him a better rider. Plenty of posts where riders are searching for the "perfect board" to actually solve what is most likely a technique problem. What I know from personal experience is that both my new and old boards all perform better as my technique has improved over the years. It ain't just the length(tech) of the wand, it's the way that you wiggle it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terekhov Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, Corey said: It's good to know the roots of the sport, but there's no shame in enjoying technological progress. late last season I've bought aged Scott Raid 164 to work as rockboard for me.... first day: I completely overwhelmed by SHEER FUN of riding pure camber non-rockered underdamped overlively madness. it was creator's blessing to learn to ride on such a beasts back in time: it seems like no such urgency to master all that controlling body language when you start on kesslers, and that's the BAD thing as I saw it. "hard in teaching easy in battle" - as said by one of russian master warriors. PS after 1st day on scott I retired it from rockboard status - it is HARD snowboard as it is, you NEED to ride one once in a time to understand/remember how to ride ultimately well. not a rockboard, but a reminder of what we've lost with kesslery shapes of today. and - yes - my everyday loved board (oes 164fc tin-less) is of modern shapes. riding such silky beasts corrupts enormously Edited February 22, 2019 by terekhov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 (edited) On 2/22/2019 at 1:20 AM, terekhov said: late last season I've bought aged Scott Raid 164 to work as rockboard for me.... first day: I completely overwhelmed by SHEER FUN of riding pure camber non-rockered underdamped overlively madness. it was creator's blessing to learn to ride on such a beasts back in time: it seems like no such urgency to master all that controlling body language when you start on kesslers, and that's the BAD thing as I saw it. "hard in teaching easy in battle" - as said by one of russian master warriors. PS after 1st day on scott I retired it from rockboard status - it is HARD snowboard as it is, you NEED to ride one once in a time to understand/remember how to ride ultimately well. not a rockboard, but a reminder of what we've lost with kesslery shapes of today. and - yes - my everyday loved board (oes 164fc tin-less) is of modern shapes. riding such silky beasts corrupts enormously Nicely put. On 2/21/2019 at 6:34 PM, Corey said: Penny-farthing bikes with wooden tires are fun too, for a while. It's good to know the roots of the sport, but there's no shame in enjoying technological progress. The P-F reference is self-affirming hyperbole. If you don’t know where you’ve been, you may know where you are, but will have little understanding of where you’re going. When you gradually diminish the skill required for a particular activity, you decrease the value of that activity at an elemental level. In the event it wasn’t obvious, some of the design features of ‘modern’ boards are implemented in response to a skill development plateau, and will largely serve to widen that impasse. ‘Fat and happy’ isn’t progress; it’s just fat and happy. Edited March 1, 2019 by Beckmann AG 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 I have zero desire to get chatter foot on a old school glass board. I remember how much of that harsh energy came back into my feet and legs. I think it was 08-09 I got my first Coiler Am Metal and was blown away at how much it averted all those bad frequencies and stuck to ice. The only non metal board in my garage is a softboot board. As posted if you have yet to try these new school boards your in for a true awakening 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailertrash Posted March 2, 2019 Report Share Posted March 2, 2019 22 hours ago, Beckmann AG said: Back in my day we didn't have boards! We just stood in the snow and slid, and we liked it! A predictable response from the resident luddite... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted March 2, 2019 Report Share Posted March 2, 2019 19 hours ago, Bobby Buggs said: I have zero desire to get chatter foot on a old school glass board. I remember how much of that harsh energy came back into my feet and legs. I think it was 08-09 I got my first Coiler Am Metal and was blown away at how much it averted all those bad frequencies and stuck to ice. The only non metal board in my garage is a softboot board. As posted if you have yet to try these new school boards your in for a true awakening Have you tried a modern non metal board? SG Full Carve or Oxess Carbon/Glass construction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted March 2, 2019 Report Share Posted March 2, 2019 2 hours ago, trailertrash said: Back in my day we didn't have boards! We just stood in the snow and slid, and we liked it! Much of this riding looks a lot more joyful and rewarding than a lot of what passes for accomplished hardbooting on the latest gear. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailertrash Posted March 2, 2019 Report Share Posted March 2, 2019 2 hours ago, Beckmann AG said: Much of this riding looks a lot more joyful and rewarding than a lot of what passes for accomplished hardbooting on the latest gear. Everyone knows if you have to use a rope on the front you have the wrong boot board placement. So soulless. They should get back to the roots of sliding on snow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noschoolrider Posted March 3, 2019 Report Share Posted March 3, 2019 7 hours ago, FrankNBeans said: 13:50 -13:55 says it all. Thank you for posting. Ted Shred has something to add... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted March 3, 2019 Report Share Posted March 3, 2019 Straightlinin' Ted? I thought the point of this Forum was "THE TURN", or as Fin pointed out "One good turn deserves another." B TURN O 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bromada Posted March 5, 2019 Report Share Posted March 5, 2019 Personal preference and skill set. Ever see someone here at Buttermilk riding a 20 year old Pure Carve Maverick completely crush a guy on a brand new whatever I just designed the Cowboy 175 board based on my old Maverick (built by Jimmy Seacrest FYI ) with Sean’s expertise and it rips, absolutely kills it. I’ve got em here at the Milk to demo and I’d be stoked for the feedback on the lift ride back up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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