daveo Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 (edited) Yes. That's a 178cm long softboot carving board. The name is as long as the board. Edited February 11, 2019 by daveo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty Edges Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 That 178 is interesting. I'm assuming that the radius will be even longer than the 18/19 172. Hopefully not the same jump in radius as between the Desperado IV and V. Has anybody here had experience with these boards for "North American" weight riders? Comparable flex? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauleleven Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 3 hours ago, Rusty Edges said: Has anybody here had experience with these boards for "North American" weight riders? Comparable flex? For North American weights you always want either the Ti or Type R, which is comparable to Kessler Cross in the same length The standard Desperado will probably buckle.... Also doesn't do well on ice too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted February 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 7 hours ago, Rusty Edges said: That 178 is interesting. I'm assuming that the radius will be even longer than the 18/19 172. Hopefully not the same jump in radius as between the Desperado IV and V. Has anybody here had experience with these boards for "North American" weight riders? Comparable flex? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty Edges Posted February 12, 2019 Report Share Posted February 12, 2019 (edited) Thanks DaveO. That is a huge SCR for a soft boot carving board!!! Edited February 12, 2019 by Rusty Edges Speillinng Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stevens Posted February 12, 2019 Report Share Posted February 12, 2019 Too narrow for that length. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted February 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Rob Stevens said: Too narrow for that length. Japanese don't have big feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stevens Posted February 12, 2019 Report Share Posted February 12, 2019 Thanks for the newsflash. Neither do I, but a size 10 is still long enough to at least need 27 something at the waist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted February 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2019 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Rob Stevens said: Thanks for the newsflash. No problems. Not many Japanese with over size 9 feet. The 100kg 6foot guy I rode with a few days ago was in Shell B Mountain Slope boots. A bit embarrassing because I bought him a couple of pairs of size Large Smartwool socks which don't fit him for his annual gift. Awkward. Edited February 12, 2019 by daveo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shred Gruumer Posted February 12, 2019 Report Share Posted February 12, 2019 1 hour ago, daveo said: Japanese don't have big feet. I'm offended... That's R...%@%ist.... doh 39 minutes ago, Rob Stevens said: Neither do I, but a size 10 is still long enough to at least need 27 something at the waist. And I always felt 25 was fricken wide... but 27... man that would take me a day to get to the other side of that board... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted February 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2019 6 minutes ago, Shred Gruumer said: I'm offended... That's R...%@%ist.... doh The feminist inside me is triggered, also... 45 minutes ago, Rob Stevens said: Neither do I, but a size 10 is still long enough to at least need 27 something at the waist. Forgot to mention that a lot of Japanese riders run quite positive angles (21+) on the rear foot. But I've seen some on -3. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stevens Posted February 12, 2019 Report Share Posted February 12, 2019 I don’t really notice a lag in the switch phase between my last 26 wide 170 Salomon and my 28 wide 170 Donek. They both could change edges within their own running lengths. I definitely notice how much more I can tip one over vs. the other. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted February 12, 2019 Report Share Posted February 12, 2019 You're running pretty shallow angles IIRC Rob. Most of those Japanese riders seem to be riding pretty steep angles for softies. P.S. I'm riding at Sunshine or Louise all next week. Are you around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabe T Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 Yeah, when I watch all those great Japanese soft boot carving vids, I also noticed that many are riding pretty high forward angles, particularly on the front. I am always curious about the setup and equipment they are using. For those that are riding very close to an alpine style, I also wonder what the allure is for them. (For those that carve like they are riding hardboots, I can only assume they also hardboot or have at least tried it) From a pure carving point of view, it still seems like there is still a pretty wide gap between softboot and hardboot performance through the spectrum of carving conditions one might encounter. (e.g.steeps, ice, chop) Yes, you can make it look as good as if you're riding hardboot gear, but it would seem that the effort to accomplish the same turns under the same given conditions is quite a bit more challenging in softies. Then again, my boots/bindings are about 10 years old so I don't know what the gap is between that and more recent equipment innovations, softboot boards included. Maybe the gap is not as big as I'm inclined to believe. I imagine part of the allure might be the versatility of being able to throw down some tricks and spins with a softboot setup. Totally get that. Some are pretty impressive and original. But the 178 seems kind of extreme. Looks more like a wide alpine board. Probably not too buttery! Incidentally, I was recently playing around with an old Burton T6 softboot board that I picked up cheap/used and hadn't ridden in a while. It’s a pretty stiff freeride board but narrow of course. I think it is 24cm at the waist. Tried some neutral angles on it at first; not much fun for me as it didn’t take much to boot out. As an experiment, I cranked it up to some ridiculous angles in the 50s to test the limits and surprisingly had some moderate success. First run felt pretty weird; almost felt unrideable. It was hard to even slide the board with control. Some extra weirdness on the rear heelside; needed to make riding adjustments in later runs to get the needed edge pressure. Toesides actually felt reasonably ok. That was just a fun experiment so I definitely wouldn’t recommend going so extreme on the angles. This past weekend, I made one adjustment and dialed down the back to around 36 degrees with extra forward lean and left the front at 54. It felt much better and was feeling like I was getting in some pretty decent alpine style turns. Prior to this, the highest angles I tried on a wider (26cm) board was around 36/24. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poloturbo Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 (edited) 120 lbs guy is different than 220 pound guy. Edited February 13, 2019 by Poloturbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauleleven Posted February 14, 2019 Report Share Posted February 14, 2019 On 2/13/2019 at 1:55 AM, Gabe T said: Yeah, when I watch all those great Japanese soft boot carving vids, I also noticed that many are riding pretty high forward angles, particularly on the front. I am always curious about the setup and equipment they are using. For those that are riding very close to an alpine style, I also wonder what the allure is for them. (For those that carve like they are riding hardboots, I can only assume they also hardboot or have at least tried it) Most of the softboot riders in Asia do not have experiernce with hardboot. Softboot carving is just marketed remarkably well through sponsored riders and stuff. The slopes in Japan are not the steepest nor are the the longest (with soft snow), softboot kinda makes sense given what's available. As far as spins and tricks are concerned, they are absolutely amazing at those during carving, however most of the good carving freestyle riders I see ride angles ~27 21 or less for more power into the ollie. A few years ago they had this weird innovation where they would make the front of the board super soft comparing to the rest of the board, so it bends in a J shape. It would appear that they've since abandoned it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishsurfer Posted February 14, 2019 Report Share Posted February 14, 2019 9 minutes ago, pauleleven said: A few years ago they had this weird innovation where they would make the front of the board super soft comparing to the rest of the board, so it bends in a J shape. It would appear that they've since abandoned it... That innovation sounds like its alive and well and emigrated to my SG soul...., its the one feature of the board i really dislike 11 minutes ago, pauleleven said: As far as spins and tricks are concerned, they are absolutely amazing at those during carving, however most of the good carving freestyle riders I see ride angles ~27 21 or less for more power into the ollie. That makes me think of this vid, nollie 540s mid carve are something i know the theory behind but im not looking to try them any time soon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted February 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2019 11 minutes ago, pauleleven said: Most of the softboot riders in Asia do not have experiernce with hardboot. Softboot carving is just marketed remarkably well through sponsored riders and stuff. The slopes in Japan are not the steepest nor are the the longest (with soft snow), softboot kinda makes sense given what's available. Good ol' @pauleleven spreading that fake news about Japan again. Do I need to post another photo of an owl? Don't make me do it! Literally every softboot carver I know in Japan also rides hardboot... I think the terrain here is suited to hardboot over softboot. A few of the softboot carvers here have moved exclusively to hardboot recently, also! Good Times! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauleleven Posted February 14, 2019 Report Share Posted February 14, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, daveo said: Good ol' @pauleleven spreading that fake news about Japan again. Do I need to post another photo of an owl? Don't make me do it! Literally every softboot carver I know in Japan also rides hardboot... I think the terrain here is suited to hardboot over softboot. A few of the softboot carvers here have moved exclusively to hardboot recently, also! Good Times! The amount of recognition softboot receives is unparalleled, and of course you being a hardbooter would only know local hardbooters... But seriously, a bunch of the best carving riders do not ride hard at all. A lot of the hobbiests having 45 front is not productive as it sometimes has significant boot-in, losing leverage. If you consider a good hardboot rider, who is comfortable with "the norm," there is no reason that the lowest angle possible is uncomfortable. (If they did ride hard-boot, they would opt for lower angles as opposed to boot-in options of simply, 45 for the sake of it) 5 hours ago, scottishsurfer said: That innovation sounds like its alive and well and emigrated to my SG soul...., its the one feature of the board i really dislike I never got that feeling with the Soul. I was going to say they still did that, but after quick checking of BC-Stream's website and Gray's, they have since abandoned the soft-nose design, which I think used to limit speed greatly. Soul on the other hand, feels like one of those high-speed boards, which means (and felt like) a uniform flex gradient. Carve-Trick-Carve on the other hand tho, that's just pure f***ing talent, respect! Edited February 14, 2019 by pauleleven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted February 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2019 8 minutes ago, pauleleven said: The amount of recognition softboot receives is unparalleled, and of course you being a hardbooter would only know local hardbooters... Negatory, soldier. I was a softboot rider last year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauleleven Posted February 14, 2019 Report Share Posted February 14, 2019 Just now, daveo said: Negatory, soldier. I was a softboot rider last year... With ya cute Driver-X and stuff yea? Asian Technical Riding has WAY TOO MUCH hype in it..... Not worth it for me... There are absolutely quite some good riders, but it would seem hobbyists are just learning the wrong thing from them, if they get access to a decent rider even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted February 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2019 14 minutes ago, pauleleven said: With ya cute Driver-X and stuff yea? Yeah those flexible drivers xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauleleven Posted February 14, 2019 Report Share Posted February 14, 2019 8 minutes ago, daveo said: Yeah those flexible drivers xx I should try those, but I also need money to buy a bazillion more alpine boards..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted February 15, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2019 5 hours ago, pauleleven said: I should try those, but I also need money to buy a bazillion more alpine boards..... Is dad out of town? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauleleven Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 22 hours ago, daveo said: Is dad out of town? What sugar daddy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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