daveo Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 Saw this article on Facebook about Marcel & Oxess, was great to read. Use the translate feature built into your browser. https://desktop.12app.ch/articles/19080388 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauleleven Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 Nice, The Economies of scale, SG can keep costs lower by outsorcing manufacturing to Capita, I wonder what the deal is with Kessler, they must sell 100-200 in China alone each year, still the high price? 3 hours ago, daveo said: Use the translate feature built into your browser. Nein, mein daveo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted January 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 5 hours ago, pauleleven said: Nice, The Economies of scale, SG can keep costs lower by outsorcing manufacturing to Capita, I wonder what the deal is with Kessler, they must sell 100-200 in China alone each year, still the high price? Nein, mein daveo I think it's just because Kessler can because there is the name. K has their own full on production facility now. Whole range of skis, plates, boards etc. Oxess has 6 people and a small workshop and pretty much every board is custom... SG FR (pro team) 163 with allflex inserts is still 1250 or 1300 EUR. Not too much different from an Oxess. I know which one I'd choose... HIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Paulo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 This podcast with Jason Levinthal (J Skis, Line, 4FRNT) really covers the economy of scale topic in depth. http://outofpodcast.com/2018/11/14/e34/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted January 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 Lol I'm good. Taught economics at uni for enough painful semesters that if I see anything with the word scale, scope, elasticity, s&d, sometimes even the word game, I start to shudder and have anxiety attacks. Ew. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauleleven Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, daveo said: SG FR (pro team) 163 with allflex inserts is still 1250 or 1300 EUR. Not too much different from an Oxess. I know which one I'd choose... HIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Paulo The big three really have not much difference, it's all about preference and which company's culture the riders like the most. Sometimes riders get bored and jump ship, Galmarini and Karl both left SG because of that, Nevin's been there for like 7 years. I do love SG tho, super fanboy of them (and him), think I'm actually more enthusiastic than the Chinese distributor haha. So you'd choose Sense from Korea? Got this baby to test ride for the weekend, not your MAGICAL K168, but it'll do, I think, maybe, perhaps, possibly. Also, going to Galmarini camp in April 2 hours ago, daveo said: Lol I'm good. Taught economics at uni for enough painful semesters that if I see anything with the word scale, scope, elasticity, s&d Game theory Zero sum game Inelastic prices Monopolistic competition Dov'è Dovea????????? Edited January 25, 2019 by pauleleven 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishsurfer Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 13 hours ago, pauleleven said: Nice, The Economies of scale, SG can keep costs lower by outsorcing manufacturing to Capita, I wonder what the deal is with Kessler, they must sell 100-200 in China alone each year, still the high price? Nein, mein daveo Im sure i read somewhere that Sigi is partial owner of the capita factory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted January 26, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, pauleleven said: So you'd choose Sense from Korea? Sense? As in from Slovenia? Orrrr is there another Sense? 5 hours ago, pauleleven said: Game theory Zero sum game Inelastic prices Monopolistic competition Seizure. Help. Memories of oligopoly returning. Reminds me I once had a lecturer that for some reason in 1 lecture decided to reference his own work, but never referenced anything ever before or after. It was super queer. He was super queer. 5 hours ago, pauleleven said: Got this baby to test ride for the weekend, not your MAGICAL K168, but it'll do, I think, maybe, perhaps, possibly. Good, because are not worthy to ride The Board Of The Gods. 5 hours ago, pauleleven said: The big three really have not much difference, it's all about preference and which company's culture the riders like the most. Sometimes riders get bored and jump ship, Galmarini and Karl both left SG because of that, Nevin's been there for like 7 years. A custom board handmade by a couple of people after discussing exact needs compared to a serial production board made off-site... not much difference? Whhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaatttttttttttttttt. Edited January 26, 2019 by daveo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauleleven Posted January 26, 2019 Report Share Posted January 26, 2019 4 hours ago, daveo said: Sense? As in from Slovenia? Orrrr is there another Sense? No idea, don't know them, I'm an uneducated fool. Maybe you'd like Gray's Alpine selection. 4 hours ago, daveo said: A custom board handmade by a couple of people after discussing exact needs compared to a serial production board made off-site... not much difference? Whhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaatttttttttttttttt. Performance for off the shelf-models are more or less the same, plus it's pretty much a rotation between the three for podiums. I would pay extra for Oxess' custom service, Kessler well....... I have mixed feelings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shred Gruumer Posted February 23, 2019 Report Share Posted February 23, 2019 On 1/25/2019 at 10:47 AM, daveo said: Oxess. I know which one I'd choose... I know which I would buy every time... Marcel is great to work with and worth every penny... Especially the carbon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael.a Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 (edited) On 1/26/2019 at 12:26 AM, scottishsurfer said: Im sure i read somewhere that Sigi is partial owner of the capita factory Yup. Smart move. I think we need an updated list of snb company -> snb manufacturer lists, there was one floating around here or on extremecarving. Edited March 5, 2019 by michael.a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLN Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 On 1/25/2019 at 7:36 PM, daveo said: exact needs compared to a serial production board made off-site... not much difference? Whhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaatttttttttttttttt. But how you know that custom board will be what you need? I have a few friends who ordered Kesslers based on their previous models (i.e. copy of my own boards) and it was not a copy. ended up being worse. With SG you can try someonelses board and get same model/lenth and be 100%(okay, 95%) sure it will be the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted February 28, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, TLN said: But how you know that custom board will be what you need? I have a few friends who ordered Kesslers based on their previous models (i.e. copy of my own boards) and it was not a copy. ended up being worse. With SG you can try someonelses board and get same model/lenth and be 100%(okay, 95%) sure it will be the same Heard this a few times about custom Kesslers, actually. People either not getting what they expected, being interpreted incorrectly, or what I suspect, having dealt with both H.Kessler and Marcel from Oxess, not enough inquiring from the builder to ensure the customer is getting exactly what they want/need. Never heard it about Oxess, though. Marcel is patient, thorough and prudent. Actually a delight to deal with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauleleven Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 On 2/28/2019 at 2:37 PM, FrankNBeans said: I would go to the Capita clinin(s) at the shop just to see what reps have to say about things. Apparently, Capita's Mothership is a super eco-friendly plant and they made a real effort to make it that way. https://www.capitasnowboarding.com/mothership Yes, however it will be very hard to establish a factory and have it NOT Eco-Friendly in the EU nowadays. One guy I know in the industry is pissed at the Mothership because the long-term sustainability (after ~30 years) is not taken into account, but he's an ex-hippie from California living in Switzerland, so lol. Great guy tho, went on ranting about politicians erecting this monstrosity of a factory to line their pockets and win re-elections.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 Of course Switzerland isn't quite in the EU, although they're closely aligned with it. -- I've never been a "custom" person myself, for any sport. I'm sure if you can try 10 prototypes you can hone it to precisely what you think you want, but otherwise if you have 10 stock models I could likely pick several to which I could easily adapt, and one or two which would be equally close to perfection. But then I also ride stock boots... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokkis Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 When you go to custom, you either need to know what to ask, or get recommendations from manufacturer. I started with later one with Coiler, and then later was able to go with former one, but with great help from Bruce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLN Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 On 2/28/2019 at 11:05 AM, daveo said: Heard this a few times about custom Kesslers, actually. People either not getting what they expected, being interpreted incorrectly, or what I suspect, having dealt with both H.Kessler and Marcel from Oxess, not enough inquiring from the builder to ensure the customer is getting exactly what they want/need. Never heard it about Oxess, though. Marcel is patient, thorough and prudent. Actually a delight to deal with. I heard same things. I know Marcel offered to rebuild board a few times, after a few attemps. I highly value such customer experience, but I'm not a pro-racer and I prefer to save some $ a bit if possible. You can get used SG and it will ride as any other SG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauleleven Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 4 hours ago, FrankNBeans said: The reps don't mention that part(surprisingly). He doesn't like conglomerates, C3 is pretty close to one lol. They do have amazing marketing tho, I'd always choose Capita comparing to a Burton.... Also love my Union bindings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauleleven Posted March 2, 2019 Report Share Posted March 2, 2019 8 hours ago, FrankNBeans said: The kid at the shop has an older brother that is on Captia/Union/32. When he comes by, he spills all of the 'photo shoot' marketing stuff they are doing. I've heard Union makes a superior binding. Everyone loves them. Heck yea, super comfortable and adjustable bindings, good rider culture, what they're doing for Asia-specific binding may not be too great (a few more carbon bindings for just the asian market), but I do think the bindings are well researched and designed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted March 2, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2019 On 3/2/2019 at 6:45 AM, pauleleven said: I'd always choose Capita comparing to a Burton... Burton4lyf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted March 7, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 On 3/2/2019 at 5:38 AM, TLN said: I heard same things. I know Marcel offered to rebuild board a few times, after a few attemps. I highly value such customer experience, but I'm not a pro-racer and I prefer to save some $ a bit if possible. You can get used SG and it will ride as any other SG. I'm in the same boat as you but just wanted to try every manufacturer to see what the big deal was. So far I know who I like and who I don't, who I'd continue supporting and who I wouldn't. Marcel from Oxess, Bruce from Coiler, Jennifer from Mountain Slope and Ivan from http://www.carver.si/ are ones I'll continue to support forever. I have no doubt in my mind that if a board didn't turn out as Marcel had planned, it would be rebuilt. My opinion of Marcel is that he won't rest until it is perfect. He specifically asked me for continual feedback on the board. I haven't reported anything bad yet, except my good friend who is new to hardboots looked really good on it, and that was rather annoying. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 On 2/28/2019 at 8:37 AM, FrankNBeans said: I would go to the Capita clinin(s) at the shop just to see what reps have to say about things. Apparently, Capita's Mothership is a super eco-friendly plant and they made a real effort to make it that way. https://www.capitasnowboarding.com/mothership Yeah, it’s the elan plant, pretty sure that’s why sigi is there too as that’s where production was before capita was involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 Weird on the custom kesslers, heard this from multiple sources. Still, I have a hard time thinking he does anything bad. No joke, the best three second hand boards I’ve had have been Kesslers, haven’t gone custom with him so maybe there’s something there and I have no experience there. I had one builder blow it twice, won’t mention who but they seem to have mostly exited alpine at this point anyway. Bruce nails it every time though can say that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted March 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 2 hours ago, bobdea said: . I had one builder blow it twice, won’t mention who but they seem to have mostly exited alpine at this point anyway. Just say the letter it starts with........ Wanna know if it is the same one who fudged my boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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