lonbordin Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 Folks my son is looking at trying instruction (ski instruction) for his "gap" year. I'm kinda lost for advice for him. Also, unaware of pitfalls or resorts to avoid... How does it work... do people get their certs then instruct? Should he just be looking at resorts that are hiring? He's a great skier, really personable, and 19. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 What is his intent/goal(s)? How far from home does he want to go? Generally speaking, it's easier to get a job with no experience at an eastern resort, whereas the western resorts will often require a minimum level of certification, or at the very least a letter of recommendation along with CV. Experience comes before certification. Don't recall the specifics, but usually someone higher up on staff has to sign off on a minimum number of teaching hours prior to attending a given cert event. Having done a lot of hiring, I found those without certification better candidates for the program than those with. Not always, but usually. So if he interviews well, it might not be a non-issue. Also in hiring decisions, the 'personable' part has always been more important to me than the skiing ability. Assuming a baseline of skiing competence, effective communication and an outgoing personality is far more important than how one appears to ski. East coast pay can often be described by the fraction Diddly/Squat. Some resorts pay a minimum per diem, others do not. Some resorts require you to show up at lineup whenever you are at the mountain, regardless of if you are on the schedule. Others do not. Some resorts will offer useful discounts to employees, often depending on full time/part time status. Higher pay at say, Aspen, but also higher cost of living. Affordable housing can be a problem, especially if he's applying late for a job. It's customary to work more than one job, absent trust fund, generous parents, or lottery winnings. That's becoming something of a problem at some areas with recent consolidation. E.g., Sugarloaf (and most likely other Boyne resorts) are making it difficult to earn enough, on account of owning many of the service points, and not wanting to pay overtime, thereby limiting employment options. Speaking to a former co-worker this evening, there aren't enough instructors this season in several departments, so if he could find a place to live, he'd be a walk-on at Biggerloaf. And then back to the beginning, what is his motivation? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 5 hours ago, Beckmann AG said: East coast pay can often be described by the fraction Diddly/Squat. Depending on how relatively small Squat actually is, that could be a significant amount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailertrash Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 8 hours ago, Beckmann AG said: Speaking to a former co-worker this evening, there aren't enough instructors this season in several departments, so if he could find a place to live, he'd be a walk-on at Biggerloaf. If he brought his own lodging maybe. The seasonal housing market is tight right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted December 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 7 minutes ago, trailertrash said: If he brought his own lodging maybe. The seasonal housing market is tight right now. He'll pitch a tent on the Circle EB ranch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted December 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 8 hours ago, Beckmann AG said: What is his intent/goal(s)? How far from home does he want to go? And then back to the beginning, what is his motivation? These answers are a Dad's so as much as I can know a 19 year old's thoughts and motivations... He''s been interested in ski instruction for sometime now... (I'm not blaming you EB) He's willing to travel... he'd like to know somebody(s) where he goes but he realizes how remote that possibility is... this wouldn't be his first stretch away from home (He's done remote SCA) and he's well traveled. Motivation... I think he's looking to mature and spend time working outside doing something he likes to do and is comfortable doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 9 hours ago, daveo said: Depending on how relatively small Squat actually is, that could be a significant amount. Will do better next time to establish parameters. Meanwhile, context should serve as an able guide. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 (edited) 15 hours ago, lonbordin said: These answers are a Dad's so as much as I can know a 19 year old's thoughts and motivations... He''s been interested in ski instruction for sometime now... (I'm not blaming you EB) NO COLLiSION! Is this winter his gap year, or is this a plan for next winter? A season or two of instruction can be a worthy pursuit, but at this stage in the degradation of the industry, advance planning can really help. I'll knock down a tree or two if he wants to park that custom 4wd Sprinter conversion van next to the camp. Will have to move the Timberpro and diesel bulk tank, so give me a few days notice. Could type for hours about the pros and cons of ski instruction. By all means, if either (or both) of you want to have a phone conversation, get in touch. Edited December 18, 2018 by Beckmann AG 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted December 17, 2018 Report Share Posted December 17, 2018 15 hours ago, Beckmann AG said: Don't recall the specifics, but usually someone higher up on staff has to sign off on a minimum number of teaching hours prior to attending a given cert event. Not sure about the USA but in Canada you can take the CASI level one course just by signing up and paying the dough. They require you to be at least 15 and comfortable/safe on intermediate terrain. More info here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted December 18, 2018 Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 Here is some rather specific advice which may be too late, but here it is anyway. Back when I was a sophomore in college, a friend of mine and I were hired as part time instructors at the same time. We did not have any certification or experience, just riding experience. We showed up at hiring weekend and passed the group interview process. It helped that I already knew and had ridden with the hiring manager (Herr Beckmann). My parents had already purchased my season pass, my friend did not have one. The resort gave him a season pass right away. They did not refund my parents for my season pass until I had worked many hours. So if you don't want to be in the business of giving a ski resort a small short term loan at zero interest, don't buy him a season pass. If that would be no big deal, then disregard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuisanceIV Posted December 18, 2018 Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 I'm around your sons age and looked into a position like this at one point, so here's what I know. At my local resort, it seems they have instructures that are non-certified but require intermediate/advanced skill to the least, and then of course those who are already certified. When I spoke to one of the department heads at the ski school, he suggested I study the AASI material to improve my chances, asked if I have any experience teaching people, if I'm patient, and if I'm good with people. On the mountain's website they post all the available instructor positions on their website, and what they want, so that may be a good place to start. They told me you tend to start out teaching never-ever beginner riders, so something to keep in mind. Some cons my coworkers who work in my department but also/used to instruct told me that many never-ever riders aren't that interested in the sport, and that good hours can be trouble to get, so he may need to work in other departments for extra money. Hope this helped somehow! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted December 18, 2018 Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 By all accounts instructors are paid only for their teaching hours and junior people get booked less so it is part-time work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwavedave Posted December 18, 2018 Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 On 12/18/2018 at 12:31 AM, nuisanceIV said: ...they have instructors that are non-certified but require intermediate/advanced skill to the least, and then of course those who are already certified. When I spoke to one of the department heads at the ski school, he suggested I study the AASI material to improve my chances, asked if I have any experience teaching people, if I'm patient, and if I'm good with people. On the mountain's website they post all the available instructor positions on their website, and what they want, so that may be a good place to start. They told me you tend to start out teaching never-ever beginner riders, so something to keep in mind. Some cons my coworkers who work in my department but also/used to instruct told me that many never-ever riders aren't that interested in the sport, and that good hours can be trouble to get, so he may need to work in other departments for extra money. Hope this helped somehow! I taught at a local hill (Wild Mt) for a few years. They needed instructors to teach 1st timers who would get a free 1 hr lesson with a rental package and lift ticket. I had no certification and they showed us how to teach some basic skills. Pay was minimal, but I got a season pass for myself and my daughter, and I had to buy one of their red jackets for 100 bucks. Most kids in those lessons really weren't interested in learning basic skills. You really have to like teaching for very little pay. Turned out I was just in it for the free passes and prestige of wearing the red jacket (allowed me to ride up early for first tracks). It was fun and I got to ride a lot. Even if you're a good skier/rider, you have to start at the bottom. PS, I remember I had to take a written test as well as demonstrating my teaching skills after the class, so I think I earned some base level of certification. The serious instructors that taught me to teach were going through the process of getting higher levels of certification during the following seasons. Pay was higher for them, private lessons etc, but the process had some hurdles to make it a challenge to earn a higher level certification. I think they had to travel to a western resort for the classes and testing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keenan Posted December 18, 2018 Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 2 hours ago, Neil Gendzwill said: By all accounts instructors are paid only for their teaching hours and junior people get booked less so it is part-time work. If he is able to teach skiing and boarding (you don't have to be that good at either) he will work a lot more hours. Most areas pay based on the level of certification, but if you have a level one in both sports you will more than likely work more than if you have a level two in one discipline. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted December 18, 2018 Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 9 hours ago, Neil Gendzwill said: By all accounts instructors are paid only for their teaching hours and junior people get booked less so it is part-time work. Partially correct. I can talk only from my perspective, which is heavily influenced by what happens at my home mountain, BC laws, and Canada / CASI in general. Typically, both part time and full time instructors would have their committed days/shifts assigned. If an 8hr shift was assigned, the instructor will have to be there for the full length of the shift (unless sent home). Work or no work, the minimum pay would be 2hrs for a p/t and 4hrs for a full time instructor. Most of the resorts will not employ you as an instructor if you didn't have level 1 already, it is a liability issue. You can get Level 1 without previous teaching experience. Dual certified instructors definitely get more work. Higher certified and more experienced instructors get priority and sometimes can choose the preferred type of lesons. 90% of lessons are never ever, beginner, children, school groups and camps. I really laughed at "never evers are not really interested in the sport, so it's hard to get hours..." Definition of never ever is that they have no clue about sport. If they are there, it already means they are interested. It's the instructor's job to help them fall in love with it, so they come back. When they come back, they are not the "never evers" any more, but beginners. And see above... a young upstart instructor will get mostly those, as they are majority of the clientele. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keenan Posted December 18, 2018 Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 13 minutes ago, BlueB said: Typically, both part time and full time instructors would have their committed days/shifts assigned. If an 8hr shift was assigned, the instructor will have to be there for the full length of the shift (unless sent home). Work or no work, the minimum pay would be 2hrs for a p/t and 4hrs for a full time instructor. That may be true in the land of enchantment, but in the U.S. if you show up for two shifts and don't get a lesson you will get paid for the time you spent waiting, typically about 15 minutes per shift. So, you could be on the mountain from 9:45 until 1:pm and get paid for 30 minutes. It is a very glamorous lifestyle. On another note, I used to work with a guy who would slip $5 to someone at the beginning of a lesson and ask him to make sure that everyone saw him give it back at the end of the lesson. Others would then realize that tipping is a good thing to do. This was morally wrong but still hilarious, and it worked until he got caught. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted December 18, 2018 Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 The labour laws in Canada vary from province to province but I believe most of them have a minimum number of hours paid if you get called into work. In BC it is 2, in Alberta and Saskatchewan it is 3. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted December 19, 2018 Report Share Posted December 19, 2018 I.e., take the potential for earnings out of the picture, and instead assume a monetary setback for the season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emdee406 Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 (edited) I have BASI (British) Full Cert quals, I teach at Park City/Canyons now (18 seasons), having taught in Europe for 15. The set ups are VERY different. In Europe you can’t go near a student until you have a qualification. In the Western resorts, you get hired unqualified, get 3 days of training, then in January you start taking clinics, with a view to sitting your exam in March. Here in Utah, they are so short of Instructors, that we trainers are told that we can’t dismiss any trainees at the Hiring Camp Its up to us to get them up to the required standard, end of story. As stated above, our instructors only get paid when they teach, but will get 15mins attendance pay, if they don’t. Hence the shortage of instructors, also given the cost of living in Park City. Most instructors have a minimum of 2 jobs Getting the job is not the issue out here, living off the wages, is... Edited December 21, 2018 by Emdee406 Omission 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuxdiesel Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 I started as a snowboard instructor back in 1988, and had to teach skiing as well just to make it worthwhile being at the hill. I moved up to PSIA Ed. Staff and later the Snowboard D-Team, as well as writing and reviewing educational articles for various magazines. At most I barely cleared $10K one season, and that was after working at it for over a decade and very little of it was freeriding time. I have had many kids of friends and family members ask for a recommendation. I always tell them to just buy a ski pass and then find consistent work in a ski town, like a grocery store or restaurant. A stock boy who works and 8 hour shift will clear more than teaching a couple of beginner lessons a day, which is what most newbies do. Remember, what the public pays for lessons is not what the instructor makes- if they did, it would be much more lucrative. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibrussell Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 He might ant to look into working in repair/rentals. My son did this at The Canyons. Worked two hours in the morning, four in afternoon skied in between. Got a pass and made minimum wage. He made more an skied more than his buddy who was teaching 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuisanceIV Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, ibrussell said: He might ant to look into working in repair/rentals. I work in rentals. It can be pretty chill unless it's busy. It's cool working with gear, but it's boring rental stuff for beginners mostly. Minion work where you just turn screws all day Repair would probably be more interesting, but they'll put ya' to work. And he'd find out just how many snowboarders on the mountain don't tighten their screws Oh yeah, and looking for a resort w/ killer night skiing is a great idea! It makes it easier to ride more and still work a bit. When I get off my shifts at 4ish I ride till 8 or 10pm! It's also great for avoiding traffic, less people on the road after 4pm when all the morning people went home. Edited January 23, 2019 by nuisanceIV 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 If you have experience it’s possible to make a real living as a waiter, depending on the restaurant. Met a guy with an engineering degree on the lift at Lake Louise. He was making more money in tips with his job on the evening shift at the Post Hotel dining room than he could as an engineer. Worked 5-midnight, skied all day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted January 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 So he's read this thread more than a couple of times. We REALLY thank everyone for their replies! He was going to work for the local hill while going to school this semester but up until very recently they were closed so he's added a couple of courses instead. He may still try to get certification locally but the schedule is shot as this season is FUBAR. I think at the least he's eyes wide open about ski instruction and the other options. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyt. Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 what Frank and beans said. Bartender, waitstaff for tip money. Go early season for the apt. and lock that in first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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