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Gremlin

UPZ Disproportionate Volume

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Is having trouble filling vertical space in the forefoot a common problem in UPZs? My bare foot touches the shell on almost the whole perimeter but has ~1.3" above it at the end of the bottom shell opening while standing on my footbed. I would simply shim under my entire foot, but at my arch I only have ~.3" and they fit my ankle fine.

While I could have an unusually thin forefoot, my arch isn't high at all and it seems unlikely I'm that much of an outlier.

I took them to the local bootshop and they tried shimming underneath from just behind the balls of my foot forward. In addition to not being sufficient, it totally threw off my geometry so I quickly got rid of them.

Anybody have ideas as to how to improve my fit?

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Glue a section of neoprene to the top of the liner to fill the void.

Computer mouse pads, or your local dive shop.

If you really wanted to get tricky, you could fill the low spot in the front of the shell  with a batch of self leveling epoxy/urethane, then adjust your bindings to account for the change in ramp.

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I agree, fill the top not the bottom, foamed liners (foam is pressurized in) would also fill the void, perfectly.

I always put a hands warmer sucker under the shell over the liner, on top of my foamed liners.

If your heel is held in place toe room is heaven.

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I've tried both using can foam into a bag above the toe and making a filler out of softer eps foam. Neither was serviceable.

I do have some 1.5" neoprene that I wanted to avoid cutting up, but I'll try that next.

I'm not sure I want to fill the bottom given how much I disliked the ~3mm firm neoprene already. I tried adjusting my bindings more than a couple times and wasn't satisfied. It could be that I was just missing it, or the change in shape highlights some footbed deficiency, but I'm liking reversible till it's good. Across the top of the boot is also far more rounded than my foot.

I would like to try foam liners if they could do that much volume, but definitely not at that price in these boots. I despise the rc10 tongue.

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On 3/28/2018 at 9:33 PM, Gremlin said:

I would like to try foam liners if they could do that much volume, but definitely not at that price in these boots.

You may find that injection liner fill runs to the end of the arch, and then only too each side of the foot and not above..

Is your forefoot actually lifting/floating in the shell while riding?

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On 3/29/2018 at 2:42 AM, ursle said:

If your heel is held in place toe room is heaven.

This for me is why I'm riding UPZ's instead of Deeluxes. The shape and size of my foot/lower leg made me lift in both 225's and 700's. Swapped to UPZ's and loving it. It's like @ursle states. The front of my feet are so comfortable, while my heel is still locked in.

Are you looking to really lock in your front foot, or does the roominess feel uncomfortable?

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Foam liners wouldn't do much good in these shells then as I have almost no room on the sides.

I was having trouble with my forefoot lifting or squirming when inverting/everting my foot. I tried out some different configurations of mousepad on top of my foot and in combination with some buckle tuning, seem to have eliminated unwanted movement sufficiently for now. It'll probably need to be revisited next winter when the snow is hard again, as corn doesn't highlight deficiencies.

 

I like my forefoot totally locked in. A little toe wiggle is nice, but nothing more.

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6 hours ago, Gremlin said:

I like my forefoot totally locked in. A little toe wiggle is nice, but nothing more.

Ah alright. Different people, different preferences :)

For me the most important thing is to lock in my heel/ankle and not have any lift, and the UPZ's did that for me where no Deeluxe could do it because of the shape of my foot. Also, it doesn't get really cold where I usually go on snowboard holidays, so I never had cold feet in the past with that toe space, nor will I ever have cold feet there in the future.

Good use of a mousepad btw :D 

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On ‎3‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 8:42 PM, ursle said:

I agree, fill the top not the bottom, foamed liners (foam is pressurized in) would also fill the void, perfectly.

I always put a hands warmer sucker under the shell over the liner, on top of my foamed liners.

If your heel is held in place toe room is heaven.

I use the Toe warmers and put them on top of the liner not on the bottom stepping on them... Fact they work by getting oxygen to them...and when you step on them that cuts the flow off...no wonder people think they don't work...  All you do is lift your toes up to warm em up on the chair lift ride... Its been working for years now..  I have UPZ boots as well but I like the extra toe room..

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Had a funny and enlightening time on the hill today.

 

I was all over the place and felt like a total beginner my first run. Couldn't turn out of my feet at all, had to rely on smashing into the cuffs to do anything other than skid.

Get to the bottom, irately mulling over what could possibly be so wrong. Forward lean and buckles are all good, changed my lift and bail placement back from the used Il Moro's I picked up to try, angles are good... Footbeds are still in the other boots! Thankfully they were still in the van and the day could continue.

I was amazed what a difference having a properly supported foot makes. I've know that it's important, but the lack thereof robbed me of all but my most basic control. Custom footbeds from @BeckmannAG have been on my mind, but just took a big step up in priority.

 

Also, my previous problem of vertical volume resurfaced, in a somewhat different guise. I've been having recent problems with chatter on my toes and feeling like I'm putting in effort to keep my feet in good contact with the bottom of my boots. It was as distinct as it's ever been on some irregular gun snow today. I was taking advantage of the grip and was fairly committed for something that rough. Regularly, I felt my feet actually losing contact with the bottom of my boots. Pretty strange in the middle of a deep turn.

Having tried and disliked full length shims under my footbed last year, I needed a new solution. Remembering some .120 kydex about, I made a set to sit in the boots under my liners. Carpet trials indicate they don't cause discomfort. At the very least they'll keep the toe of my liner from catching on the damn T-nut recesses. Tomorrow shall tell more of the story.

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@Gremlin is that a Cowboy Bebop avatar I see? 

May I ask which liners and footbeds are you using? 

Edited by daveo

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The good:

The kydex is a significant improvement.

The bad:

These liners are a non-optimal fit for my feet in these shells. Probably going to get a set of Flos in the proper size.

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Have you considered a set of Palau or Intuition liners? It's pretty normal for UPZ riders to have a deep hatred toward the Flo liner... 

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On 1/9/2019 at 8:33 PM, Gremlin said:

Probably going to get a set of Flos in the proper size.

Gremlin what size boot do you have?

I dont know why upz ships 600$ boots out with improperly sized liners, my 28-28.5 boots came with a 9.5 flo liner that doesnt fit my foot or the boot, It swims around in the shell so much its worthless to me.

If the 9.5 liner is what you after let me know they would probably fit a 27-27.5 boot. I will let you have it for the cost of shipping to your door .

I found that a 11 flo liner out of the 29-29.5 upz boot fits perfectly in my 28-28.5 boot & it gave me way more comfort , I  still had to stuff padding above the toe area tho.

Im looking for another 11 flo liner for my other boots now ,if you have any leads lemme know.

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42 minutes ago, nitro said:

I dont know why upz ships 600$ boots out with improperly sized liners, my 28-28.5 boots came with a 9.5 flo liner that doesnt fit my foot or the boot, It swims around in the shell so much its worthless to me.

If the 9.5 liner is what you after let me know they would probably fit a 27-27.5 boot. 

Thank you! It drives me nuts! You order the correct BSL shell and end up with a liner that is rediculously undersized.

Also the liner is made for the narrow long foot and the shell is made for a wide foot.

Makes. No. Damn. Sense!

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22 hours ago, nitro said:

I dont know why upz ships 600$ boots out with improperly sized liners,

My size 8.5 UPZ liners were 30 mm shorter than the inside of the shell they came with. Can not be legal.

I bought some Intuition Luxury high volume liners, and they fit the shell very well. Much warmer too. Really should not be necessary though...

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I have 287 shells. They're listed at 9, so 9.5 liners might be too much.
I just checked my flo liners and they're 26cm or so. Very strange that they undersize the liners by so much. I agree mine are too narrow, but I can't say if that's from them simply being too small.

An update on my kydex shims: they're working excellently. Just wish I didn't need them.

 

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22 minutes ago, Gremlin said:

I have 287 shells. They're listed at 9, so 9.5 liners might be too much.

Just for future knowledge the bottom of the 9.5 Flo liner is 286/287 mm. I'll follow up with pictures in a bit.

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imagine how much those liners swim around in the 312 mm shell I have.. sounds like they might be a good fit for Gremlins boot then,, stuff em in & heat em up for the win...

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Yeah, those should be just about perfect then.

What an asinine issue to have to solve. Even stranger that they'd go to the bother of putting in nice cork oil liners and have the sizes so far off. I can understand half sizes for whole size lasts, but without more volume to fill the shell?

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