Gray Snowboards?

[pauleleven]

Hey guys, softboot carver in China right now, I've actually tried this board.

The gray lineup is very interesting, basic deperado is good for just funcarving, desperado TI is harder with one short strip of  titanal, the type R is with two layers and it is a very heavy  board. Type R is designed for a lot of softboot slalom racers, it is heavy and requires quite some skill to maneuver, but shouldn't be a problem for hardboots.

On 2/20/2018 at 3:29 PM, Shred Gruumer said:

F2 Qualifies..  Especially if you score a Hanno Proto model... if you see one cheap...snag it..you won't be disappointed!  

 

I will most likely go through Rakuten and use a forwarder...  Unless the Mfg responds back to my emails...(its how I roll)...ha..  Lots of cool stuff out that way..  I wish the Yonex was a better hammer shape,,, the construction and materials are up there!!! see web site... I know the tennis rackets are great...  

The Majest looks good too and its the least expensive out of the bunch! (Next years graphics look cheesy though).     Take a look at BC Stream...they are making them honking long.. dunno about a 25.5 wide board at 170...

 

Heres some other eye candy...  and the R-One...

 

 

I actually own the R-One and it is by far one of my favorite boards, kinda broke it after a collision with a Gray..... so sad. It is soft and hard at the same time, with two full sheets of titanal as opposed to the two strips one each side in the Type R. For daily riding type R may be just right, especially hardboots, but anythinig else isn't idea. BC Stream's boards are much softer and great for carving and tricks on the slope, which is a rising phenomenon in China, Japan and Korea these days.

p.s. ONE is partly if not wholely owned by WSLC in Japan, who has a hand in both F2 and Kessler. I believe the base material is the same, crazy fast stuff, great edge material. A lot of these newer boards in Asia are just for  dealing with the hard snow, cuz freestyle hurts a lot on icy hard pack snow. However, there are some hyped boards that basically  do not deserve the high price they're charging nowadays, gray's price is propped up this year, and I doubt the off-season price will be that much of a discount.

p.p.s. The person who taught me to ride softboot alpine style bought the type R for this season, and after trying Kessler's Cross, decided to sell the Type R for a new board  next year. He was basically saying that the Cross holds edge at high speed much better, with more response as well. Type R is basically the best SBX style board Japan has to offer at the moment.

 

My poor  ONE, the topmost layer is fully titanal, when talking with the only guy willing to repair, we ran into the problem of cutting the  damn thing because it's such a stiff and hard alloy. Great board tho, hopefully it will be somewhat ridable next  season :(

Edited February 27, 2018 by pauleleven

[Shred Gruumer]

2 hours ago, pauleleven said:

Hey guys, softboot carver in China right now, I've actually tried this board

Yeaaaaa!  finally ....Great feedback, that's the info we need...   I find the SBX sidecuts and taper a bit too fast for graceful carving... I guess your seeing why the more carving oriented boards start to pop up more and more...  What Im seeing for the price of the Ti Type R for next season is I think way too high!!...more than a Virus!

The One R-One seems to have the specs Im looking for...could use a bit more taper..but the sidecut seems reasonable.

You have anything on the Yonex Symarc?

Oh...and when your out there take some photos of these boards...  even your One!  we could use some good eye candy.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Shred Gruumer

[Corey]

1 hour ago, Shred Gruumer said:

I find the SBX sidecuts and taper a bit too fast for graceful carving...

I took out a Donek SRT demo in hardboots - and promptly fell on my face on the first attempted toe side.  That's a big sidecut radius and a stiff flex!

[pauleleven]

3 hours ago, Shred Gruumer said:

Yeaaaaa!  finally ....Great feedback, that's the info we need...   I find the SBX sidecuts and taper a bit too fast for graceful carving... I guess your seeing why the more carving oriented boards start to pop up more and more...  What Im seeing for the price of the Ti Type R for next season is I think way too high!!...more than a Virus!

The One R-One seems to have the specs Im looking for...could use a bit more taper..but the sidecut seems reasonable.

You have anything on the Yonex Symarc?

Oh...and when your out there take some photos of these boards...  even your One!  we could use some good eye candy.

hahahahahaha, currently I'm in europe tho, I'll see if I could get some videos  of the new carving tricks they're all  too  crazy about.

Yonek, Moss I have never seen  in China,  which  makes them mysterious  and highly sought after, and when  they do enter the market  no doubt will fetch a high price.

Ogasaka just entered this year, but I've not been able to try it.

Currently riding Tom Sims Pro, best all-mountain board even with softboot at 36 27 and furthest setback. The other day I switched it back to 45 39 and basically  found the limit  of the edge hold,  it's not terribly fast before giving up, definitely a bit better than BC Stream R2 I would think, and most other american made boards since they don't  really  put torsion into the designs. (I think Jones, Nitro Quiver, Sims and NS does it real well), but no one in the US really use these SBX type boards to carve alpine style.

However, there's a bunch of  bullshit myths surrounding this whole softboot thing, they say you want the hardest boots and the hardest bindings, but personally I find the hard bindings cutting into my calves a lot,  and I never fully tighten either of my boots. There are people breaking bindings such  as Union Force due to force applied to the backplate, but my Union Atlas is great, and it isn't a terribly hard binding. As of right now, I find that it is my Sims board that is failing during a high angulation carve, and I am confident that the boots and bindings can take much more force.   End of rant 

R-ONE is a really good board,  but it is thin, and  I'm not sure if the hardboot bindings will cut all the way into the baselayer. The shop I go to showed me a board with small  bumps on the bottom from SP bindings. My understanding is that because it has high tensile strength of the carbon fiber, as  well the hardness of titanal (hard and soft at the same time), it should probably be used with a similar setup I have, bindings with more "give". The hardboot on it may break it. 

I know SG is probably not unfamiliar to the people on this forum, but the european boards are going to be better for hardboot setup,  so maybe Soul and Force? 

I'm considering if I should switch to hardboot  for next year, I'm lucky to be able to visit SG late March for the carving camp, will be trying everything, and see what they think for my particular riding style.

Here's a guy that does some crazy tricks, but his riding style isn't the most graceful:

https://v.qq.com/x/page/j03828aqhnj.html

Then there's this friggin guy, good retired racer, ridinig  the longest Oxess board in China  (if not the world).

8415.mp4

Edited February 27, 2018 by pauleleven
additional info

[Shred Gruumer]

My oxess carbon custom was a hoot..  heavy too but indestructible!!  I had an SG Force a few years back... did not like the overbearing glassy sound!  

[Randy Kight]

Awesome...thread's still going...thanks to all.  I'm not the only one interested in this stuff!

Pauleleven...huge posts!  Daveo...huge posts!  Thanks to both of you.  I'd be interested in hearing more about the SG stuff.  Yonex looks awesome...thanks for bringing this in Shred!

 

 

[Shred Gruumer]

6 hours ago, pauleleven said:

The hardboot on it may break it. 

Nah... im really gentle....most of the time!  I have plates on a never summer warlock.. and if that can take it the R-One....?It Should

[daveo]

Softboot slalom hey? Interesting because there are heaps of guys who ride grey type-r here but never even heard of or seen softboot slalom. In saying that, it does have a very racey feel. It is generally recommended here (Nagano, Japan) as THE softboot carving board... If you are willing to splash out, of course. The more I've enquired the more this comes up.

As far as I'm aware the Desperado Ti has 2 titanal strips up either side and the Desperado Ti Type-R has a criss cross of titanal strips. I'm fairly sure about this but I could be corrected here. And I've only ridden a type-r not regular Ti.

What you guys think about a custom or off the shelf from Apex, Kessler, Oxess, SG or F2? Apex had a big following in the Olympics, wonder if they make good softboot carving boards..

Edited February 28, 2018 by daveo

[pauleleven]

10 hours ago, Shred Gruumer said:

My oxess carbon custom was a hoot..  heavy too but indestructible!!  I had an SG Force a few years back... did not like the overbearing glassy sound!  

I'm a light dude, 60kg? gonna try the Force in March.

 

10 hours ago, Randy Kight said:

Awesome...thread's still going...thanks to all.  I'm not the only one interested in this stuff!

Pauleleven...huge posts!  Daveo...huge posts!  Thanks to both of you.  I'd be interested in hearing more about the SG stuff.  Yonex looks awesome...thanks for bringing this in Shred!

 

 

I'll try to give some opinions when I  try the SG  SBX boards, haha. Been following these recent posts and  just can't resist registering and chiming  in :)

8 hours ago, Shred Gruumer said:

Nah... im really gentle....most of the time!  I have plates on a never summer warlock.. and if that can take it the R-One....?It Should

It's beautiful board, super fun, underrated at the moment which means more bang for the buck(expensive buck). 

 

7 hours ago, daveo said:

Softboot slalom hey? Interesting because there are heaps of guys who ride grey type-r here but never even heard of or seen softboot slalom. In saying that, it does have a very racey feel. It is generally recommended here (Nagano, Japan) as THE softboot carving board... If you are willing to splash out, of course. The more I've enquired the more this comes up.

As far as I'm aware the Desperado Ti has 2 titanal strips up either side and the Desperado Ti Type-R has a criss cross of titanal strips. I'm fairly sure about this but I could be corrected here. And I've only ridden a type-r not regular Ti.

What you guys think about a custom or off the shelf from Apex, Kessler, Oxess, SG or F2? Apex had a big following in the Olympics, wonder if they make good softboot carving boards..

Softboot slalom  might just  be a Chinese thing then, in japan they're more for this "Technical  Riding" thing eh? Some weird styles  tho, heel edge with butt way out. Gray's construction is not actually that much titanal.

found this from the Chinese dealers, Type R is just a cross  pattern as opposed to full sheet. Again, my friend who got to ride this and Kessler Cross said the Kessler is much better as  far as response goes. 

Read in the forum SG has some construction issues tho, other softboot boards I'd love to try, but I have not tried any of the european boards so I can't really comment on them.

 

[daveo]

Interesting regarding softboot slalom. I'd like to see it. Got any videos?

Yeah I thought I'd heard someone tell me the Ti was 2 strips and the Type-r was criss cross. Thanks for confirming that. The construction info slash specs are hard to find.

I'm keen on the 166 Type-r but I'm also interested in an Apex, Kessler or Oxess. The 172 seems way too big in all respects for me. 

I am interested to hear your feedback on the SG bx board. Construction issues aren't good though. The guys I ride with all have SGs (full carve 170) and they seem to hold up well. A few here have some softboot carving boards and they're holding up well. But then again I haven't inspected them closely.

[pauleleven]

1 hour ago, daveo said:

Interesting regarding softboot slalom. I'd like to see it. Got any videos?

Yeah I thought I'd heard someone tell me the Ti was 2 strips and the Type-r was criss cross. Thanks for confirming that. The construction info slash specs are hard to find.

I'm keen on the 166 Type-r but I'm also interested in an Apex, Kessler or Oxess. The 172 seems way too big in all respects for me. 

I am interested to hear your feedback on the SG bx board. Construction issues aren't good though. The guys I ride with all have SGs (full carve 170) and they seem to hold up well. A few here have some softboot carving boards and they're holding up well. But then again I haven't inspected them closely.

Don't have any videos on hand, but here are some pictures from one  of the best local teams in Beijing:

this is a type R, higher binding angles comparing to following photos.

Rabanser or  Kessler, smaller angle

lots of racer influence

the

With soft boots, the ladies really  need to drop that  hip for an effective heel edge. They understand  the forces involved since they  train on hardboots as well, not the most graceful but the ladies on the team absolutely demolish in competitions. Their most highly rated rider is actually a female uni student, complete hobbiest, cool gal.

these two are much closer to actual race techniques

the board on the top (IS) is designed and manufactured by  the founder and leader of the team, owns a cool alpine gear shop, boards are absolutely amazing especially for the price (dual full titanal sheet around 900USD)

really great form, I think this is the best female rider.

When my friend commented on Type R and Kessler Cross, he said that the Japanese make a cool board, but do not understand what really makes a BX board a BX board --- fast and steady.

Again, I've not tried any of the european boards, have to wait to find out :)

[pauleleven]

For these guys, they take out the softboot boards for some fun competitions, and when the competition is serious I do believe they go with hardboots, with the exception of the UNI student who only started riding hardboot this year.

[daveo]

Those are some cool photos. Thanks for that! So in these competitions they're not allowed to use hardboots right? Like it's softboot (only)  slalom? What sort of bindings and boots are they using generally? Seems like an interesting concept. I wonder if it will take off here in Japan. Doubt it but I hope it does. 

This sort of competition would be great to increase skill level on softboots, I'd love to give it a shot, even though the race itself is being run on inherently subpar gear for the chosen purpose. The only reason why I did some gate training on my Kessler was to increase my skill level, not to actually race. 

Yep exactly, they're not bx boards and not meant to be bx boards. That's their whole 'thing', they're made as freecarve boards. Not high speed bx boards. Exactly what my Japanese coach said yesterday at lunch. Don't be mistaken by thinking any of those Japanese 'carve' boards are designed for bx because they're not at all =)

In saying that I've recently contacted oxess Kessler and apex regarding some softboot carving boards bring custom. I'll definitely be riding something like this next year at some point.

[Shred Gruumer]

5 minutes ago, pauleleven said:

Again, I've not tried any of the european boards, have to wait to find out :)

I have..  the build quality of the Oxess Carbon top is great and that top is bomb proof, I had no need to go metal with their boards,, the carbon is damp and still enough pop for some fun stuff.   I owned the SG Force...Too glassy feel and sound.. top was brittle almost..chips easy.. didn't seem like it would hold up well under normal jib bonk abuse.  Kessler Cross...I want one... Kesslers are good, but so is my Oxessesessesss.

9 minutes ago, pauleleven said:

Japanese make a cool board, but do not understand what really makes a BX board a BX board --- fast and steady.

Interesting as I think they got it down for carving,, maybe true for a BX board as that's a different animal.. Sidecut and taper being very different..  BX boards are great with speed, but in my opinion don't lend themselves as a great free carver..  I think the specs of the Gray and Moss are spot on for carving..

 

12 minutes ago, pauleleven said:

I am interested to hear your feedback on the SG bx board. Construction issues aren't good though

I heard this too, funny how word gets around, construction issues this year early on... I be really skeptical on this years boards...  I haven't had too much luck with them..  some of my friends had issues too.. topsheet issues... delams , cracking , chipping...  I think your money is better spent on a Kessler or Oxess..

[daveo]

One thing I've noticed on every SG ever is the topsheet clear cover thingy always peels. No matter what. On. Every. Single. Board.

[pauleleven]

9 minutes ago, daveo said:

Those are some cool photos. Thanks for that! So in these competitions they're not allowed to use hardboots right? Like it's softboot (only)  slalom? What sort of bindings and boots are they using generally? Seems like an interesting concept. I wonder if it will take off here in Japan. Doubt it but I hope it does. .

So as far as gear goes there's a bunch of bullshit myths floating around, the japanese actually  played quite a hand in this, Union specifically made three hard hard bindings for the japanese and asian market that you can't find any info on the western interweb. The current myth goes you want hard hard softboots and even harder bindings, so things like drake  radar and union T.Rice. I find it to be false tho, union atlas and force serve me better with more response. True I don't get 100% power transfer, but that's something for hardboots lol.

p.s. Type R is the only  board in the softboot lineup that is semi for racing, everything else is funcarving.

 

[pauleleven]

20 minutes ago, Shred Gruumer said:

I have..  the build quality of the Oxess Carbon top is great and that top is bomb proof, I had no need to go metal with their boards,, the carbon is damp and still enough pop for some fun stuff.   I owned the SG Force...Too glassy feel and sound.. top was brittle almost..chips easy.. didn't seem like it would hold up well under normal jib bonk abuse.  Kessler Cross...I want one... Kesslers are good, but so is my Oxessesessesss.

I  can foresee two situations where I buy  the SG board there, 1: it is everything I am looking for, but considering I will most likely switch to hardboot next year I doublt the softboot variants will satiate that need.

2: Ledecka and/or Vaultier are there, it is their pro camp afteralll, then it'll be a signature piece to go on the wall, bragging rights and such haha.

23 minutes ago, Shred Gruumer said:

Interesting as I think they got it down for carving,, maybe true for a BX board as that's a different animal.. Sidecut and taper being very different..  BX boards are great with speed, but in my opinion don't lend themselves as a great free carver..  I think the specs of the Gray and Moss are spot on for carving..

I  think there is something there, not only are you hardboot, you are also of the typical bigger build as an American. For us Asians Type R may very well be too heavy and  past the point of funcarving, but it should be just right for you and that purpose. I do love that aggressive taper on the type R tho, similar to the Oxess Race taper.

22 minutes ago, daveo said:

One thing I've noticed on every SG ever is the topsheet clear cover thingy always peels. No matter what. On. Every. Single. Board.

Topsheet issue  would be a major concern, now I'm even more unsure if I should spend the money  on a SG BX, or save  it for getting started with  hardboots. I am torn with the decision right  now however, to hardboot or not  to  hardboot! That is the question.

[daveo]

That's interesting. I'll look into that bindings and boots for research  purposes.

From what I'm hearing here in Japan the type-r is as close as you can get to an alpine freecarve board on softboots. That is when compared to the other boards from One, Ogasaka, BC, Moss and bx boards don't even get compared as they're a different kettle of fishies. But in saying that I only personally know 8 Japanese alpine riders (two of which softboot carve, also) at my mountain in Nagano. They know a lot more though as I'm just a foreigner here. 

[pauleleven]

@Shred Gruumer

also there's this rumor going around: the F2 factory in Germany, who also manufacture Korua Shapes and  ONE  Snowboards, also does Kessler. I am 99% sure ONE and F2 are from the same people because of the perlatech base, Korua's plus series while doesn't specify base name, the topsheet  finish is exactly the same as ONE with that pulled aluminum finish. Beautiful boards!

 

[daveo]

3 minutes ago, pauleleven said:

Topsheet issue  would be a major concern, now I'm even more unsure if I should spend the money  on a SG BX, or save  it for getting started with  hardboots. I am torn with the decision right  now however, to hardboot or not  to  hardboot! That is the question.

It's not a topsheet delamination or anything. It is like the clear sheet on top of the topsheet which kind of makes it look shiny. They always peel. ALWAYS dammit. 

[pauleleven]

1 minute ago, daveo said:

That's interesting. I'll look into that bindings and boots for research  purposes.

From what I'm hearing here in Japan the type-r is as close as you can get to an alpine freecarve board on softboots. That is when compared to the other boards from One, Ogasaka, BC, Moss and bx boards don't even get compared as they're a different kettle of fishies. But in saying that I only personally know 8 Japanese alpine riders (two of which softboot carve, also) at my mountain in Nagano. They know a lot more though as I'm just a foreigner here. 

The SP Bindings are actually very well made, the backplate has great support going backwards, but allows  for your boot to twist left and right (torsion), same deal with the Atlas. With  the hard hard bindings I got to  ride, it's like my feet are completely  strapped to cement blocks, and  cuts thru my boot  to apply pressure on my calves, not great.

[daveo]

I was personally looking at flow nx2-gt. Ridden them? 

[pauleleven]

flow is super popular in Europe, see them  everywhere. I never tried but I have heard good things. It's all  about how it fits with your boots man. This  year they started advertising Flux a lot, personally  I still like Union better.

[Shred Gruumer]

2 hours ago, pauleleven said:

flow is super popular in Europe, see them  everywhere. I never tried but I have heard good things. It's all  about how it fits with your boots man. This  year they started advertising Flux a lot, personally  I still like Union better.

Im gonna try my new Switchback Session binding this weekend...hopefully they do the trick...  I'll find out if they are too soft or too stiff...  they will let me know what direction to go with in the future...

[Shred Gruumer]

Moss still Intrigues me!  18/19 models are out in the catalog on their site now...  Its tricky to find them... you'll search to death if you just use Moss!  its Pioneermoss.ltd...  The Majest uses .5mm titanal and the twister uses .3mm titanal.