Plate bindings similar to Phantom splitboard bindings?

[chowtownsfinest]

I also posted this over in the splitboard.com forum, but have been  roaming around this website recently and wanted to get some input from people much more in the know about hardboot equipment (even if I am using it in a different way).   

I have been using a Phantom setup with modified TLT6’s on a Jones Solution splitboard for two seasons now. I run it at +18/-15, with a 23.5" stance width; which is the same as my soft boot resort riding angles.

In bounds at Squaw though, where I teach snowboarding and end up riding 50-100 days a year, I was using K2 Thraxis boots with Union Travis Rice bindings on a Jones Flagship and a Prior AMF. On those boards I ride everything from park to groomers to bumps to powder, regular and switch (both in and out of lessons).

My problem was that I blew out the Thraxis (usually smoke a pair a season) and after rediscovering the videos of Chad Otterstrom on the Phantom Facebook page riding modified TLT6 with Phantoms on jumps and rails and in the halfpipe, I decided to give it a go.  I put the Phantoms on my Prior AMF and went at it, but found myself paranoid about leaving the board on a rack because it would be easy for someone to take the binding if they knew what they were looking at. 

So I searched around the abandoned gear pile in the locker room and came across a pair of old Bomber TD2's and have been riding and teaching in them since.  I really like how, for me, the modified TLT's upper flexes like my Thraxis cranked down, but I have the benefit of power transmission when I want it thanks to the stiff lower portion. (Shades of Damien Sanders?)

However, I do not like the ride height of the TD2, the heavy canting, nor the stiffness of the binding.  What plate bindings should I be looking at if I am going to keep this setup?  F2 Titanium Race?  F2 Carve RS?  Carve Company Speed (Burton/Ibex)? PHK Highlander?  PHK 69.5?  

Thanks!

Edited April 6, 2017 by chowtownsfinest

[chowtownsfinest]

For the record I am a bigger guy: 6’4″ and over 200lbs with a 29 mondo.

[Eric Brammer aka PSR]

The IBEX/Burton would be the best bet, just because of the "fit" tween boot + binding. I use a 'variety' of screws on the the mounting disks, just to make a prospective thief need to change driver bits (that extra 6-7 seconds, under a camera, foils those who 'unscrew' bindings and leave them hanging on the lock) .

Your boot size, and overall bulk and muscle strength, well, Bombers are likely your better bet for aggressive riding. look also for CATEK bindings, as they are (when set correctly, ie, with the cant/tension screws tightened equally against the the main post screw) very robust, and also quite adjustable in regards to Lift/Cant, so, then, very comfortable once 'set right'.

With F-2's, understand that they (like many others) use fixed cants/lifts, but are 'malleable' by way of making your own 'little' shims/cants to perfect your stance. I still do not like how the F-2 fits with many boots, as it often leaves a gap of more than 1/16", which, in Racing, means lost leverage, and, perhaps a safety risk. SG's re-vamp of the design may prove out as better, but, I haven't personally seen a pair yet

Keep your eye open, btw, for Drake plate bindings. And, they bolt right onto F-2 metal baseplates.

 

Edited April 7, 2017 by Eric Brammer aka PSR

[digger jr]

I suggest F2 carve RS. Light, quite flexible a touch lower.

[lonbordin]

On 4/6/2017 at 3:32 PM, chowtownsfinest said:

For the record I am a bigger guy: 6’4″ and over 200lbs with a 29 mondo.

Just fyi... "The heavy canting" of the TDs can be eliminated by purchasing 0* cant disks.

Also the TLT6 has much more ramp angle (heel lift) than softies so you might want to use the cants to offset the heel lift moving you back to flat. So perhaps toe lift in both front and rear.

[P06781]

I used to ride burton/ipex and broke a pair a year? Same size as you .  But they are light and have a little flex ? Maybe the ipex ones are better .  Or I would go flat 0 disks like lonbordin said on td2s ? 

[H2O]

On freeride boards/soft boards/ATboards I use:

- Ibex / Carve Company Speed (ex Burton race), my favorites, light, with the right flex and low

- F2 carve RS (old model, with the titanal disk and plastic baseplate)

I have also a pair of F2 carve RS (new model, all plastic), light and much flex, that I use on soft freeride boards like Jones Hovercraft or similar boards.

With this setup I ride with AT boots; La Sportiva Sideral or La Sportiva Spectre but now I am looking the Atomic Backland boots to modify subsequently with a spring system like DeeLuxe Rab or a custom made system.

Edited April 11, 2017 by H2O

[pokkis]

Why you would switch away from La Sportiva? How they are, i would like to hear about those how they work.

They look very tempting to be considered. Anyway i'm happy with my Backlands, but keep my yeyes open.

[H2O]

Hi Pokkis,

I am happy with my La Sportiva Sideral as they are very light for AT snowboard (for climb I use them with a pair of short skis and Dynafit  front bindings) but I am looking for an allround AT boot to use everywhere (with Pogo Shaman and may be also with my Coiler as it is wide 22,5) and with a spring system.

With La Sportiva you can not put a spring system and it is very light but not enough stiff and so I thought about the Backland (I've seen in the photo your Backland with the Bts).

I've also La Sportiva Spectre but I don't change them as I use them for ski. They could be ok for snowboard  but it is difficult to put a good spring system. On the Backland I think it is possible to mount a Rab or probably works better an Acss.

I have to try.    

[moose]

I was interested in similar questions to @chowtownsfinest, but use different gear: I ride the Spark Dyno bindings on my split with some old BD Primes and became interested in riding the same boot and same angles at the resort on a solid. At first, I picked up a pair of TD2's. I had some similar concerns to yours, but the biggest concern was that they seem to put SO much torque on the boards while riding all mountain that I broke one board (an old Burton, no big loss) and was too worried about another board (a Donek Incline... which should hold up but I didn't want to take any chances...). 

I switched over to F2's recently (the titanium race rather than the softer model) and have had great success with these. They flex more than the TD2's, making the concern about breaking boards lower, and they still allow quickness for bump runs, pop off jumps, etc. Plus, they seem to be pretty easy to get your hands on (which can be a challenge for some binding models). In terms of weight ranges, I'm also a bigger guy - 6'3" 210lbs. I think that's why the titanium race were a good fit for me - flex but still strong enough to stand up to my fat-guy abuse. 

And, of course, on the incline they rip carves. They just might make you want to get a carve board (I did... and it's awesome). 

[BlueB]

Absolutely the Carve RS or Proflex (same thing) for the type of all-round riding you described. That's what I settled on, for my wider boards, aftet a lot of experimenting. 

[nils]

I have Dyno HD on my split 4 with mid modified TLT6 ( very good bindings btw)

I am so happy with the way the TLT6 feel that it has now become my everyday boots except when i am riding a full carving setup with my nortwaves that are stiff/heavy as hell in comparison. Downside is having to put a bit more angle to avoid overhang, otherwise its pure fun. Am using TD2's, TD3's or Swoard Redline plates with 0° canting/lift on all those setups ( on Swallowtails or Swoard Dual2). Lateral play comes from the vibram soles and less tightened bindings.

 

[SnowFerret]

On 3/30/2018 at 3:32 AM, nils said:

I have Dyno HD on my split 4 with mid modified TLT6 ( very good bindings btw)

I am so happy with the way the TLT6 feel that it has now become my everyday boots except when i am riding a full carving setup with my nortwaves that are stiff/heavy as hell in comparison. Downside is having to put a bit more angle to avoid overhang, otherwise its pure fun. Am using TD2's, TD3's or Swoard Redline plates with 0° canting/lift on all those setups ( on Swallowtails or Swoard Dual2). Lateral play comes from the vibram soles and less tightened bindings.

 

 

I'm actually interested in getting into splitboarding and was considering going with a hardboot setup.  Could you share some more insights on splitting with AT boots?

[Buell]

 

1 hour ago, SnowFerret said:

 

I'm actually interested in getting into splitboarding and was considering going with a hardboot setup.  Could you share some more insights on splitting with AT boots?

The boot forum on Splitboard.com has tons of reading on different boots. The TLT6 (before that the TLT5) had been the go to boot for AT boot splitting, but riders seem to be using a wide variety of boots now. A lot of them are difficult to modify for splitting. The next go to boot will likely be the Atomic Backlands. I just got a pair of Backland Ultimates. I cannot say more right now, but a modification is being developed for the Backlands that will make them very user friendly.

For bindings, it is pretty much a pair of Phantoms or a set of Spark Dynos (Plum and at least one other European company also make AT boot splitboard bindings). Phantoms are top notch quality. I put a review of the Phantoms here on ASB (BOL).

Edited April 4, 2018 by Buell

[SnowFerret]

1 hour ago, Buell said:

 

The boot forum on Splitboard.com has tons of reading on different boots. The TLT6 (before that the TLT5) had been the go to boot for AT boot splitting, but riders seem to be using a wide variety of boots now. A lot of them are difficult to modify for splitting. The next go to boot will likely be the Atomic Backlands. I just got a pair of Backland Ultimates. I cannot say more right now, but a modification is being developed for the Backlands that will make them very user friendly.

For bindings, it is pretty much a pair of Phantoms or a set of Spark Dynos (Plum and at least one other European company also make AT boot splitboard bindings). Phantoms are top notch quality. I put a review of the Phantoms here on ASB (BOL).

Thanks for the information, Buell.  I just started to browse the Splitboard.com forums so I’ll definitely give the boot subforum a look.  Are there any assessments of the Speedfit boots?  They seem to be a replacement for the discontinued TLT6.

 

Are the Voile Mountain Plate bindings even worth considering? How about for a heavier (~200lbs) rider?

[Buell]

8 hours ago, SnowFerret said:

Thanks for the information, Buell.  I just started to browse the Splitboard.com forums so I’ll definitely give the boot subforum a look.  Are there any assessments of the Speedfit boots?  They seem to be a replacement for the discontinued TLT6.

 

Are the Voile Mountain Plate bindings even worth considering? How about for a heavier (~200lbs) rider?

I have not heard much about the Speedfits, but I expect they are very similar to the TLT6. I don't know what size boot you wear, but Phantom has some clearance TLT6s and a pair of Speedfits available here.

No, the Voile Mountain Plates are not worth considering. Performance issues aside, I was terrified of them at 150 pounds when I first started splitting 10 years ago. I rode them for a couple of tours before mounting a set of F2 toe and heel blocks on a Voile slider plate. Our bindings have come a long way since then thankfully.

[nils]

We have to remember that people on Splitboard.com mostly come from the softboot scenes and have never used hardboots, except maybe in the old days. For us hardbooters, we need to see their vision also as something biased by that ( as well as our vision is biased by our hardboots background.

This means that coming from hardboots, there is no need for as much transformation into the AT boots than what they are looking for. We are used to having the feet hold that way, ride with angles etc.. This is why they keep experimenting a lot until they will find the 5 legs cow: the AT boot that has the looseness of a softboots, whereas we likely don't feel that need.

I have since I snowboard on pure powderboards ( '99) always ridden with hardboots, first SB121, then SB121 race ( both were coming from raichle's AT molds family) and then with pure hardboots ( Nortwave). Now that I have found and made my TLT6 comfy ( widening the shell, modifying the back so I get more angle) I feel better than I have never been in any boots..

As for advantages of HB touring, especially if you go into 3-4 parts boards ( that are very rare, especially in north america), you are basically climbing like a skiier with boots that hold lateraly and grip in the steep climbs. That seems unneeded in powder, but  I have climbed up a icy glacier and even with the crampons, every step was tricky and dangerous..I was glad I was not using clumsy softboots and wide skiis.( was so icy I had even to remove skis and step into shoe crampons for 600m uphill: not fun...

Also the narrower boots/uphill bindings are easier to pull up without having to spread the legs to avoid contact between the boots when u get tired..

So basically, it will give you versatility, because when you will walk/clim on rocks with or without crampons, it will always be easier than with softboots...Of course guys like Xavier Delerue or that does extreme splitboarding will always prefer softboots..Some others like Pierre Tardivel is using hardboots by Pierre Gignoux ( the black snowboard model > 1300 grams per pair) but with softboots bindings!.)

Hope this helps!

 

[Buell]

Splitboard.com is a mixture of riders. True, almost none of them have ridden hardboots, but I am constantly amazed how many of them do not modify their AT boots, even for forward ankle flex. While I know some hardbooters might be able to pull that off with good technique, I really wonder how some of the people coming from softboots look with their normal low angles and boots that are hard to flex at the ankles.

I have hardbooted since I started snowboarding in 2005, when carving groomers. I prefer softboots for non carving resort riding (I don't do much) and AT boots for splitboarding (I splitboard a lot). My TLTs were modified by just expanding the forward lean slot so I could have some ankle flex. The Phantom bindings are designed to provide lateral flex which becomes very important at the lower angles you ride on a splitboard. I ran 25f/20r for  a while and am now down to 21f/12r.

Nils, I have been riding the Gignouxs for over a year now and I cannot imagine putting them in softboot bindings? If nothing else, it seems like the bindings would be way too wide for the ultra low profile Gignouxs.  Why would you bother carrying heavy, clunky softboot bindings if you are on the Blacks? They definitely do not need a highback. They are almost too stiff on heelside with all that carbon.

 

[lonbordin]

17 hours ago, Buell said:

. I cannot say more right now, but a modification is being developed for the Backlands that will make them very user friendly.

Why do you tease me so?

[SnowFerret]

13 hours ago, Buell said:

I have not heard much about the Speedfits, but I expect they are very similar to the TLT6. I don't know what size boot you wear, but Phantom has some clearance TLT6s and a pair of Speedfits available here.

No, the Voile Mountain Plates are not worth considering. Performance issues aside, I was terrified of them at 150 pounds when I first started splitting 10 years ago. I rode them for a couple of tours before mounting a set of F2 toe and heel blocks on a Voile slider plate. Our bindings have come a long way since then thankfully.

Thanks for the heads-up.  I'm still on the fence with splitboarding, so I'm going to hold off on picking up boots for the time being.  First thing I should do is see if the Dynafits...uh...fit my feet.  I think there are a few authorized dealers nearby so I'll start there first.

[nils]

12 hours ago, Buell said:

Splitboard.com is a mixture of riders. True, almost none of them have ridden hardboots, but I am constantly amazed how many of them do not modify their AT boots, even for forward ankle flex. While I know some hardbooters might be able to pull that off with good technique, I really wonder how some of the people coming from softboots look with their normal low angles and boots that are hard to flex at the ankles.

I have hardbooted since I started snowboarding in 2005, when carving groomers. I prefer softboots for non carving resort riding (I don't do much) and AT boots for splitboarding (I splitboard a lot). My TLTs were modified by just expanding the forward lean slot so I could have some ankle flex. The Phantom bindings are designed to provide lateral flex which becomes very important at the lower angles you ride on a splitboard. I ran 25f/20r for  a while and am now down to 21f/12r.

Nils, I have been riding the Gignouxs for over a year now and I cannot imagine putting them in softboot bindings? If nothing else, it seems like the bindings would be way too wide for the ultra low profile Gignouxs.  Why would you bother carrying heavy, clunky softboot bindings if you are on the Blacks? They definitely do not need a highback. They are almost too stiff on heelside with all that carbon.

 

Well since Pierre Tardivel has premièred most of the french alps very steep couloirs over the last 30 years in skiis and now on split, I can't say he is crazy ;)..He modified softboots bindings to suit his needs, and keeps experimenting...now he uses the plum plate with a strap in the front of the foot and bail in the back. He uses the plate under the foot while upclimbing too..kinda strange...He helps Plum work on their systems so let"s hope something even lighter comes out of it! ( i am not convinced by their bails for their new HB plates as of yet ( too thin to my tastes)

 

 

[nils]

4 hours ago, SnowFerret said:

Thanks for the heads-up.  I'm still on the fence with splitboarding, so I'm going to hold off on picking up boots for the time being.  First thing I should do is see if the Dynafits...uh...fit my feet.  I think there are a few authorized dealers nearby so I'll start there first.

I had to get the shells expanded in various spots for they were too narrow for my mid foot section...A good bootfitter can do that for not too much $$..They are now as comfy as crocs with the normal liner.