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Carvings back on the menu!


lonbordin

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I have only Skied once in the last 32 years Phil... there is a HUGE :eplus2: difference between Floating on top and Diving straight into Light bottomless on a Steep slope on the OLD style skis back then , and That I personally liked the Skis better for that reason...I never used miller softs or any of the other Pow Ski models, which were actually wider than the two pairs of original head standards, I found in a garage here in Aspen in 68, back then 185 for 8's...and a pair of 210 for play...Pow is the ultimate as far as I am concerned so I can also say, never have had a bad Pow day, no matter the equipment...being the Pow hound you are, I am sure you feel the same way...Carving on Groomers is what I do waiting for Pow, must say that I use mostly the same Carving motion for Pow that I use on Groom since it is mostly a surface experience here, most of the time, OK B ?...yep, the tele folks still get the depth, though most of the folks I see now are on wider shorter models of those as well...wish I was where you are, just riding in a copter is a thrill, then getting out and looking down at untracked slopes is a nice rush...Enjoy :biggthump

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  • 6 months later...

Nidecker's 2017-2018 catalogue is live https://www.nidecker.com/snowboards/gear/snowboards/spectre-carbon.html.

What I don't get is that why their hardboot-specific boards are so wide. The spectre is 24.5 at the waist. Now I'm not as excited.

They also would have done well to make hardboot bindings. 

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Interesting. Of course from my perspective hard boots were where they started. I'd certainly like to try one.

Width: wasn't there a thread on here from people who wanted wider boards?

Bindings: I'm not sure that's a market I'd invest in any time soon, but presumably it's relatively straight forward to press boards with more race-oriented design, less easy to tool up for manufacture of bindings... and perhaps too these boards are likely to be ridden by more able soft booters, in practice. There's no plate mounting or any other stuff there, and the shapes aren't much different from their standard stuff.

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I've ALWAYS been Comfy on 'Wider' boards for carving, because I didn't buy into the limitations imposed by a very narrow board. I have known, for DECADES, that being stanced at less aggressive angles allows CONTROL in the vectors of both Fore/Aft leverage, but also Toe/Heel actuation. On point of the 'Stance Scale', you get great edge awareness, and flat-board-to-the-snow feel when your feet are more ACROSS a board; Yet when your feet are angled truly Forward, you get Quick Edge Response, a drag-free fee l when Really Leaning into it, and excellent edging Power. Subtle moves to the edge (finesse, if you will) are muted, but the Power is Increased by your better ability to leverage to the Fore+Aft, if using Hardboots. So, IMHO, if you ride with angles between the high 30's up into the 50's, you are IN THE POWER BAND for Thrust and Carving Control. You may still be able to pull a 'switch-stance' move, too, but many 'freestyle' motions will be harder/improbable to pull off. Is this 'Best' for Carvers or Racers? Sometimes, it is, as the Versatility shines through, and Frees the feet to DANCE. But, in terms of absolute speed, or Carving Aggression, maybe not. You, as a Rider have to set-up our own Goals, and pick for yourself. As One of my younger students asked these recent days ("why don't you Always Ride a RACE Board?") My answer:. ["I am not always RACING, Nor ALWAYS Carving, but I DO WANT to Always be able to do Great CARVES"].. This is true, regardless of my direction of travel, and regardless of my boots/bindings, or stancing, or... Not going to cow-tow it, I FREECARVE/FREERIDE/FREESTYLE/FREERACE/and hit FREE-POW when I Can! Pick your Board to suit, and Just Romp what's best for You.. Luckily, that's most of any season, anywhere, for ME!

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/09/2017 at 11:06 PM, charliechocolate said:

Nidecker's 2017-2018 catalogue is live https://www.nidecker.com/snowboards/gear/snowboards/spectre-carbon.html.

What I don't get is that why their hardboot-specific boards are so wide. The spectre is 24.5 at the waist. Now I'm not as excited.

They also would have done well to make hardboot bindings. 

haha the turn radius is just ridiculously short! Someone at the design room just never ridden a hardboot carving setup with low angles.....I am not sure what anyone would do on that board....with a turn radius of 11-12 it would start to get interesting..but 7.4m!

 

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6 hours ago, nils said:

haha the turn radius is just ridiculously short! Someone at the design room just never ridden a hardboot carving setup with low angles.....I am not sure what anyone would do on that board....with a turn radius of 11-12 it would start to get interesting..but 7.4m!

 

Hi Nils, tight turning, wide and soft alpine boards have their application. Relatively similar, Nidecker's old Proto is one of my all time favorites, Charliechocolate has it too and everyone that tried them, around here, liked them a lot. I'm sure there are quite a few other Bomberites that know about this "secret" board... 

Now, to make it clear, it is not an EC board, or race board, or even meant for very high speed. It is a freeride board built for hard boots! Pow, trees, moguls, slush (to play, not plow), busy crowded runs, green cruisers, park, switch riding, teaching students, starting first timers, are applications where this thing shines! Yes, at my 80kg I could overpower it on a steep blue run, if I tried to ride fast open turns, but I've got other boards for that... 

I think that my Proto is 8 or 8.5m, something like that. On the down side, it brakes easily, price for feather light construction and nimble handling, I guess... Yet, It's almost always in my car as the 1st or 2nd board. 

Now back to Spectre, which seems to come as a heir to Proto... I think Charlie is right, the 163 and 168 are a bit too wide. 220, 240, 242 is a bit strange progression through lengths. I'd probably do 220, 227, 235 or 220, 230, 240 too offer more balanced mid length option. It seems they went a bit higher to try to appeal to people who want to ride softies at steep angles? The question is why, since they have good softy carvers in the lineup? 

Oh, the the big one is 7.9m scr, that's OK... 

Edited by BlueB
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51 minutes ago, nils said:

haha the turn radius is just ridiculously short! Someone at the design room just never ridden a hardboot carving setup with low angles.....I am not sure what anyone would do on that board....with a turn radius of 11-12 it would start to get interesting..but 7.4m!

 

Their Proto from yesteryear has a similar SCR. It's a really fun AM freeride board.

I'm sure they don't mean for it to compete with metal SL boards and their market probably doesn't want something like that. I see your point, though.

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Ha ha we chimed in almost simultaneously! 

Also it seems that F2 has come up with an update to their ElDiablo - the Axxis GTS. If they've decambered and softened the nose a bit, it might be a great product! 

http://www.f2.com/snow/boards.php?L=&da=1664&dk=46&db=11&name=AXXIS GTS

axxis_gts_top.png

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4 hours ago, BlueB said:

...  tight turning, wide and soft alpine boards have their application. ....

 

Maybe they're not really targeting it at us? Isn't it more likely to be soft boot people who reckon they want to ride fast? From that perspective, these are presumably rocket ships. Once they hit the limits, maybe they'll come our way. But for now, anything which looks  like it's not designed for spinny tricks seems positive.

The (clothoid) sidecut on my Kessler SL is specified as 7-11m, so I' think I could have fun at a low speed carve on those... but I've never ridden one so I don't know. In powder it'd be no issue at all, although it doesn't of course seem designed for that.
 

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Ok maybe it makes sense then..I still believe the same board with 10-11m would be a good thing because it would add some EC capabilities here and then...otherwise with short SCR you turn so fast its difficult to engage the next turn...but indeed we've all experienced that the SCR is kinda theorical because when u try 360's on a 13-14 m board you end up having a 4-5m SCR print on the snow..

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