Rusty Edges Posted February 8, 2019 Report Share Posted February 8, 2019 Every knuckle-dragger at my local "bump" should be made to watch this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west carven Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 howdy this is the holy grail of soft carving... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stevens Posted February 15, 2019 Report Share Posted February 15, 2019 On 2/11/2019 at 11:45 AM, west carven said: howdy this is the holy grail of soft carving... Pretty much. Amazing angles. I’d like to get a clearer picture of their back foot angles. Thanks for posting this stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emdee406 Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 @Rob Stevens, I think it was @scottishsurfer who posted an Eno (?) video a while back, that had stances for each rider, as they took their turn in the spotlight. Eye opening... Asian technical-style carving set-ups: Front/Rear/stance width/length 42/30/60/158 39/27/60/161 42/24/60/158 60cm = 23.6” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stevens Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Emdee406 said: @Rob Stevens, I think it was @scottishsurfer who posted an Eno (?) video a while back, that had stances for each rider, as they took their turn in the spotlight. Eye opening... Asian technical-style carving set-ups: Front/Rear/stance width/length 42/30/60/158 39/27/60/161 42/24/60/158 60cm = 23.6” I tried calling those numbers to ask what stances they run. No one picked up. Seriously though, at a minimum, those angles are 10 degrees higher in front and the whole number in back. The first two bracket my front angle, as it happens. Given their terrain, I’d say that they’re using what works to provide maximum sensation on minimum terrain. Hardboots for me on that slope would be a bore... just too much stability and control, making for a sleepy ride. Having to create that stability through internal forces is more of a challenge. Given that they probably don’t need much of a performance sliding turn, I can see where you might as well turn the feet forward to make better carves. In my experience, I don’t get on very well with higher angles on steeper freeride terrain, where I need to slip my turns. Edited February 17, 2019 by Rob Stevens 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 44 minutes ago, Rob Stevens said: Given their terrain, I’d say that they’re using what works to provide maximum sensation on minimum terrain. Hardboots for me on that slope would be a bore... just too much stability and control, making for a sleepy ride. Having to create that stability through internal forces is more of a challenge. Given that they probably don’t need much of a performance sliding turn, I can see where you might as well turn the feet forward to make better carves. "too much stability and control" doesn't really work for me. My car's designed for the track: maximum stability and control. It's not boring. But I'm missing something here. When I rode soft boots I found that steeper angles didn't work at all - my feet hurt, and the whole set up seemed to be designed for significantly shallower angles. So what's different about these guys - how come they're managing to ride basically a hard boot stance on soft boots? They must be doing something to the gear which I did not do. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stevens Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 53 minutes ago, philw said: "too much stability and control" doesn't really work for me. My car's designed for the track: maximum stability and control. It's not boring. For me, riding on those wide, low angle pitches in hardboots would be like taking an F1 car to the drag strip. There’s just not enough interest in the course to truly challenge the equipment and rider. The Japanese rider on the steeps, airing into his turns? That for me is where I’d want to be, but it takes terrain like that to make a rider and his or her board “sing”. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emdee406 Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 (edited) I’m siding more with @Rob Stevens here... When I ride, unless it’s powder, I want to ‘work’... I enjoy the effort, and a challenge. When I go out in hards, I tend to ride a Slalom length board rather than a GS, mainly for that reason. I love short, tight, powerful dynamic carves. I’m definitely more into the Race Carve style, than the Eurocarve style, but my background is racing anyway. In soft boots, I switched to Never Summer a few years ago, and although great for teaching and cruising around, they felt a bit docile to me, with their reverse camber mid section. I now freeride on a Sims TK158X (wide), and a Yes Optimistic, boards that you need to focus, when you ride, they reward good technique. I’ve just received a wide soft boot carver from Coiler, that should allow me to be pretty aggressive, and carve hard on steeps, this ‘Asian Technical Riding’ being something I aspire to. However, I agree with @philw too, in that the super high soft boot angles, are not something I really enjoy. I usually ride 21F -9R, but will move them both double positive, on this new 27cm waist Coiler, while keeping them as flat as possible. The main factor for me, is that modern soft boot bindings are not generally designed for the highbacks to rotate enough to give me the maximum heelside support that I’d like, at angles much over 30 degrees. I recently tested the DO Alloy 161, and because of it’s narrower waist, I enjoyed it much more, with plates. That’s why I’ve had Bruce build me this ‘aircraft carrier’ for my size 8.5 feet! I’ll let you know how it rides, in due course. Technique-wise, IMHO I think that the main reason that these Asian riders can do what they do (other than their obvious skill!), is their superwide stances. Many seem to be quite short, yet they’re riding 23.6”/60cm stances. I tried it as an experiment, and it totally reduces your ability for flexion/extension input (up and down movement), and makes you totally commit to tilting the board into a carve...you basically have no choice BUT to ride in that style! It really works for what they’re trying to do, but not really for much else. Ironic really, as most people ride softs for versatility, yet here’s a stance that takes that very thing, away. But it’s SO much fun!!! i notice too that the boards actually seem pretty soft (allowing buttering tricks), almost all these videos show them riding on soft pack, or packed powder, not bulletproof ice! Even in that Gray video, on the slowmo snippets, you can see the board ‘bobble’ through a lot of the high speed carves, even on such soft snow. In fact in the ‘Gray Snowboardo’ forum, one of the guys who’s ridden them, says that they’re no good on ice, so I’m guessing they’re not very torsionally stiff either. Edited February 17, 2019 by Emdee406 Omission 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted February 25, 2019 Report Share Posted February 25, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west carven Posted February 25, 2019 Report Share Posted February 25, 2019 howdy some good slomo for dissection... 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtslalom Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 Steep riding angles on softboots has been around for a long time. The stance width is the thing that I find odd. 60 cm is like a football field wide. I guess I am OLD SCHOOL riding at 18 inches = 46 cms. I couldnt even think of riding at 60 cm. Kudoo's to those guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lhg Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 some carving clips you might like. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west carven Posted March 3, 2019 Report Share Posted March 3, 2019 howdy next season already... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emdee406 Posted March 3, 2019 Report Share Posted March 3, 2019 I, am sure like many others, had thought of these Japanese and Korean boards as super expensive. When I was over there last week, I noticed that they were the same price as virtually every other brand there, including Burton and Never Summer... I only saw one rider using a hammerhead during the week, and it was a young girl, who was carving the steeps as well as anyone in the videos...very impressive indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted March 4, 2019 Report Share Posted March 4, 2019 (edited) This is one of the best softboot carving videos I've seen! Get the feeling he is an SL racer from his style. Edited March 4, 2019 by daveo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted March 4, 2019 Report Share Posted March 4, 2019 On 3/4/2019 at 2:15 AM, Emdee406 said: I only saw one rider using a hammerhead during the week, and it was a young girl, who was carving the steeps as well as anyone in the videos...very impressive indeed. I guess can see why not many would have a hammerhead in Niseko, actually. In Nagano almost everyone who carves is using a hammerhead. Come to Nagano next time and we can ride together. I know an empty resort close to where I stay (last time I was there, there were 9 patrons and 14 lift staff...) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted March 4, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2019 3 hours ago, daveo said: This is one of the best softboot carving videos I've seen! Get the feeling he is an SL racer from his style. Just imagining a video of this guy and Ryan Knapton ripping in concert! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xy9ine Posted March 4, 2019 Report Share Posted March 4, 2019 On 2/17/2019 at 6:21 AM, Emdee406 said: 42/30/60/158 39/27/60/161 42/24/60/158 60cm = 23.6” that's some aggressive splay (and stance width). curious what the benefit of that kind of spread is. i'm currently on 27/21 - as square as i can go w/o boot on on my ~27cm deck. having previously run steep angles on hard boots, i def prefer the current stance for steeps / bumps / trees / all around slashing versatility (echoing rob). i suppose one could actually try it out, rather than conjecture... the displayed skills of some of these guys is certainly a convincing argument, however. that potential more or less prompted me to ditch the hard gear. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emdee406 Posted March 5, 2019 Report Share Posted March 5, 2019 8 hours ago, daveo said: I guess can see why not many would have a hammerhead in Niseko, actually. In Nagano almost everyone who carves is using a hammerhead. Come to Nagano next time and we can ride together. I know an empty resort close to where I stay (last time I was there, there were 9 patrons and 14 lift staff...) Thanks, will do @daveo. The hammerhead carver was actually in Kiroro. Moiwa was super empty! @xy9ine I think that when you have that wide a stance, it virtually eliminates the ability for flexion/extension, so the only option is to carve! You have to crank the board over. They are highly skilled at what they do, but I don’t think that it’s a very versatile way of riding...it allows you to do just one thing, but really, really well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty Edges Posted March 5, 2019 Report Share Posted March 5, 2019 You can see how "Damp" that Prior BX board is. Nary a chatter... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted March 5, 2019 Report Share Posted March 5, 2019 27 minutes ago, Rusty Edges said: You can see how "Damp" that Prior BX board is. Nary a chatter... While I'm certain Prior BX boards are damp the rider is absorbing the chatter in his knees quite adeptly. Although there's not too much chatter there as those slopes are HERO snow conditions. I see this and I just want to ride those slopes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emdee406 Posted March 6, 2019 Report Share Posted March 6, 2019 On 3/4/2019 at 8:46 PM, lonbordin said: While I'm certain Prior BX boards are damp the rider is absorbing the chatter in his knees quite adeptly. Although there's not too much chatter there as those slopes are HERO snow conditions. I see this and I just want to ride those slopes. You’re absolutely right... the one or two videos where’s the snow is less than perfect, those boards get bucked! @xy9ine, I just went out on my faux hammerhead soft boot carver (in mostly crappy conditions), with my stance at 37F 12R and 22” stance width. I normally ride a 21” stance (I’m 5’ 6”), and it felt great! Weird thing is... I felt as though I wanted to go wider! So I've moved them to 23”, and I’ll see how that goes tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtslalom Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 Just chiming in here but I see some angle stances from softbooters getting steeper and steeper. I ride my softboot angles at 57 front and 60 rear with a 17.5 inch stance width. Now im sure most softbooters and evan some hardbooters dont ride that steep but it works for me. What I can't do is ride with such a wide stance width. I'm still stuck back in the 80's riding with my legs jammed together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 1 minute ago, jtslalom said: Just chiming in here but I see some angle stances from softbooters getting steeper and steeper. I ride my softboot angles at 57 front and 60 rear with a 17.5 inch stance width. Now im sure most softbooters and evan some hardbooters dont ride that steep but it works for me. What I can't do is ride with such a wide stance width. I'm still stuck back in the 80's riding with my legs jammed together. What do you do for heel and toe lift? Power plates or unicant? Or something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtslalom Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 Crazy as this may seem but I don't do anything. My Ride softboot bindings have inward cants. Basically they cant so that my knees get closer together while I ride. Other than that I have no heel or toe lifts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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