Jump to content
Note to New Members ×

Alpine Snowboard Plate Systems


www.oldsnowboards.com

Recommended Posts

Institut für Forschung und Entwicklung von Sportgeräten (FES) plate - at this point design features are unclear, but looks a lot like an Allflex with an extra mechanism at the front. German team only available, until a sports spy dicovers the secret sauce! Plate material unclear ?alloy ?carbon.

Used by the Germans for a 2 & 3 finish at the 2018 Olympic Women's PGS, and from the 2017-18 FIS World Cup

 

MMP_6625-X3.jpg

Edited by SunSurfer
add link to thread with more details.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The basic principal of the snowboard plate is hinge and slid.  In my opinion that is the true essence of a device that enhances  the performance of a particular board. My though on the above plate is that it provides progressive resistance so i would not class it in the same way one looks at other hinge and slide plates more in the relm of Tinkler Stix. They impose on the design of the  board. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, daveo said:

Yeah we are never getting our hands on those. So sad but it will inspire engineers and builders to start creating.

I'm particularly interested in vistflex. Seem to use composite material in places where the metal fatigues on the Allflex.

It is not composite, looks more like POM and Al. I have one on my board.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, pokkis said:

Will comment later when have more mileage with it, now running three different setups takes lot to compare and think. Sorry

Don't give us that sorry crap! Knuckle down and give us some hard hitting reviews! What are we paying you for?! 

:ices_ange

Edited by lonbordin
Much love Pokkis!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Hi guys! I am sorry I haven´t checked in here for a long time ... my bad!

I can´t read the whole thread here, but I can give you a little feedback on the Allflex plates.

First of, you get a different board/edge feeling so you really need to give it some time when testing it.

The magic of the Allflex plate? It works extremely effective in distributing the pressure along the whole edge. It is almost impossible to put the pressure just in the tail, for example, it will always spread out. But once you are used to it, it works so well. The edge contact is very clean and also kind of fast because it is so evenly distributed.

Another advantage is that you have a very good impact absorption but still way better board feel than with isolating plates (like Bomber, SG, Apex Canada, etc.). Drifting is so much nicer as well.

In the pictures of me used in this thread I am riding an original Allflex H plate hexagonal cut flex M. The plate flexes pretty heavily, but in a good way ;-).

I also use an Allflex plate normal longitudinal cut flex M on my GS board.

I will link my latest video here in a new thread. The whole video is done on Allflex plates!

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Something else ... the radius of the board is not changed a lot by the plate. Because of the nice pressure distribution, you can bend the board into very tight turns. I have some examples on my Instagram account (gerald_wintergold).

The spring plate was only available for pros so far, but that changes now. I hope we will get some for testing soon!

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/15/2018 at 3:22 PM, WinterGold said:

In the pictures of me used in this thread I am riding an original Allflex H plate hexagonal cut flex M. The plate flexes pretty heavily, but in a good way ;-).

I also use an Allflex plate normal longitudinal cut flex M on my GS board.

@WinterGold Can you give us a little more feedback on the feel of the different cuts?

Some of the photos it appears the plate is flexing with the board allowing the board to maintain it's natural bend/flex.

Is the weight of the plates noticeable? Do you know how much they weigh?

What do you think the new springs will provide?

I think this photo got us really discussing the Allflex:

 

Edited by lonbordin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I´d say that the different cuts are mainly there to change the ratio between flex and torsion. There are really only slight differences, but they are noticeable ... I guess :ices_ange ... the problem is that it all works together - cuts, shape and flex. I have tested some variations, but not different cuts in the same shape!

A lot of Austrian racers prefer the longitudinal cut - it provides quite some torsional flex (helps with feeling) and it is also the lightest.

The circular (now the hexagonal) is torsionally a bit stiffer (more precise, more direct). But you can tune it also via the shape. I chose the "softest" form - H shape - with the hole in the middle - and the feeling was really great for me - lots of board feel and still all the benefits of the Allflex plate.

About the weights - they are similar to other plate systems, so there is not much difference there in feel.

My circular cut H plate flex M weighs 2421gr (with all the screws).

My longitudinal normal shape flex M weighs 2110gr (with all the screws).

In comparison - a Vist 07 plate is 2158gr - with the Apex carbon plates it is 2005gr.

The photo you provided is great! I have similar photos of my plate working ... when powered up, the plate bends pretty heavily ... the way it is constructed, it does not restrict the board at all ... as I have written before I made some really tight turns with Allflex plates on different boards.

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

About the spring plate - I can´t say much at the moment.

I know that the first reviews of the pros were mixed, a lot of guys stayed on the traditional Allflex plates, but maybe you just have to get used to the additional rebound.

Coratti was very successful with it this season.

Hopefully I can test one soon ... I really don´t know ...

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, WinterGold said:

when powered up, the plate bends pretty heavily ... the way it is constructed, it does not restrict the board at all ... as I have written before I made some really tight turns with Allflex plates on different boards.

Neat! That makes a lot more sense now. I never considered that the CNC aluminum bits were designed to flex that much! 

I'm torn, as I'd like to try it but don't want to go down that rabbit hole...

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...

The German riders are doing well in their races, but they're getting sloppy with the end caps on their FES plates. See detail closeup from Selena Joerg's board @ Secret Garden. Photo from the FIS SmugMug site.

cxzISjq.jpg

Edited by SunSurfer
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting pic. Now I want to see a side pic, with or without the cover. 

I'm not seeing any obvious attachment between the vertical bar on the far right side and the plate. I suspect it just is a guide bar attached to the mount that prevents the plate from moving closer to the board. Maybe a stiffening bar that runs to the rear mount? 

It looks like there are two small rollers to guide the front of the plate, making it a long sliding isolation plate like previous plates, but these plates also have an intentional flex in them.  

Another interpretation is that there's a small stainless shim on the left side to guide the roller/pin/whatever near the front. But that doesn't line up with those silver rollers so I think it's just due to the angle. 

I suspect they're trying to increase the range of travel before the linkage locks out. I can't imagine why a sudden stop to motion would ever be desired, but intuition doesn't always work. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/273823365_Mechanical_and_Dynamical_Properties_of_Racing_Snowboards_and_their_Modification_by_Different_Binding_Plates

Serious reading for the serious student of plates. Note the photo of the plates in question and that the Apex plate referred to is the 2010 "duckbill" which impinged on the front section of the board it was attached to.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

https://imgur.com/gallery/6h5dfG2     
(Imgur post shows a series of photos of the process)

I think I've just shown that most of what I THOUGHT a Bomber Boiler plate was doing is WRONG. That's science for you.

Summary: The BBP 4mm made the snowboard stiffer for flex along its' length, and had no appreciable effect on its' torsional stiffness.

Inspired by the paper in the previous post I went down to my garage and made some measurements of a Riot Supercarve board, with and without a Bomber Boiler Plate 4mm (not Lite), drilled with extra holes so that the interaxle distance is 68cm. Sliding hinge mounted to the rear.

Flex along the length was measured by adding a full 20L water container to the midpoint of the original binding insert pattern. The board has been modified to have suitable UPM inserts, the pattern is centred on the original binding insert pattern.

Flex measurements were made from floor level to the board top surface. Board supported at both tips on saw horses, held by G clamps at one end.
Unplated:
646mm - no weight added
609mm - 20L container
Difference: 37mm

The plate was then added and tightened to riding state with as little disturbance as possible to the original position.
643mm - plate and no weight
612mm - plate and 20L container

Difference 31mm, and the board is actually less bent overall despite the additional weight of the plate and UPM mechanism.

Torsion measurements were made with the board clamped to a fixed beam under the centre of the board. The tips were able to freely bend and twist. A twist was induced using a lever and weight system clamped to the board tip. The system was measured with the plate mounted, then the plate was removed without disturbing the remainder of the system.
Plated: 6 degrees inclination
Unplated: 6 degrees inclination
No torsional force applied: 1 degree inclination
Measurement made using "Clinometer" a free app available from the Google Play store, and a Nokia 6.1 phone.

So now I'm puzzled, and humbled. I've stated many times in the past that I thought a plate of the Boiler Plate type, without a tip that impinges on the board, would not alter the board stiffness. I've also stated that I thought the plate increased the torsional stiffness of the board. The above measurements, which I witnessed with my own eyes, say that I'm completely wrong on both counts.

Comments & method critique welcomed.

Note: Further experiments were carried out and are reported subsequently in the thread.
 

Edited by SunSurfer
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, SunSurfer said:

I've also stated that I thought the plate increased the torsional stiffness of the board. The above measurements, which I witnessed with my own eyes, say that I'm completely wrong on both counts.

Comments & method critique welcomed.

Perception is reality.

Until it's not.

 

As mentioned previously, isocline plates are filters that affect the inputs/feedback between rider and board. By cancelling errant inputs from the rider, they allow the board to do what it should be doing, which is to say, describing an arc in the snow without undue interruption. If a rider cannot provide dissonant torsional inputs to the topsheet of the board,  or if those inputs are muted to the extent the time frame is sufficiently shifted, the board is better able to pursue it's destiny.

That feels much smoother; and smoother requires explanation using what's 'known'.

There's an interesting parallel between the effect of a plate, and the effect of proper bike fit, vis a vis the 'need' for most to ride full suspension mtn bikes .

But that's another story for another day.

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, SunSurfer said:

Summary: The BBP 4mm made the snowboard stiffer for flex along its' length, and had no appreciable effect on its' torsional stiffness.

Love the scientific approach! It appears as though you loaded the board in the middle of the insert pattern. That would artificially induce more flex in the un-plated condition than the loading induced by a rider. Moving the weights to two points on to the inserts (and closer to the axles) will reduce the difference, until the loads are right on the axles and then it's only friction in the sliders that would impact flex. 

The lack of torsion change is surprising! Could the difference be lost in instrument accuracy? The plate has some stiffness that should add to the board stiffness. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...